Tony Bristow-Stagg
Well-Known Member
Post in thread 'Arian banquet verses and Arius's letters' Arian banquet verses and Arius's letters
@RJM Your post raised an intriguing point for me, as to me you have raised a valid point as to who has the Authority of God to implement such teachings. Below is from this link.
www.newadvent.org
".. Arianism is the first heresy that gained a strong footing in the Church and seriously endangered its very nature and existence. Arius appeared on the scene when theologians were endeavouring to harmonize the apparently contradictory doctrines of the unity of God and the Divinity of Christ. Instead of unravelling the knot, he simply cut it by bluntly asserting that Christ was not God like the Father, but a creature made in time. The simplicity of the solution, the ostentatious zeal of Arius for the defence of the "one God", his mode of life, his learning and dialectic ability won many to his side.
I found a minefield of history about how the charge of Heresy was implemented and what foundation bible verses were behind it all. It appears the dominate got to define and set the standard where Heresy could be and would be applied.
It appears by the 600's a lot was sorted and the Nicene creed was well and truly adopted and by the Arius was an influence that was banished.
The interesting observation is that it was then that Muhammad received his first revelation and became a prophet in 610 CE at the age of 40 in the Cave of Hira, and then began publicly preaching of his message from around 613 CE.
One Teaching given was this verse An-Nisa 4:171
"O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Stop!—for your own good. Allah is only One God. Glory be to Him! He is far above having a son! To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And Allah is sufficient as a Trustee of Affairs."
The first question raised, is, With this Revelation, that Jesus is a Messenger of God and that the trinity was not an acceptable teaching, that Jesus was and "Anointed One", in this light, would Arius's views actually been heretical?
I guess this very question has been debated since the time this Revelation was made known to Christian clergy. Yet, as suggested, this concept was affirmed in the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, who came from an Islamic foundation.
The second question is, as I accept The One God and that Jesus Christ was Annointed of God as a Messiah, to bring humanity together in Love and Servitude to the One God, and thus each other, and as I live life with that knowledge, how does that make me an Heretic of the Message Jesus gave?
The above question in light of verses such as these
1 John 2:6"Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."
Romans 12:1–2 "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
Peace and Love to and for all.
Regards Tony
@RJM Your post raised an intriguing point for me, as to me you have raised a valid point as to who has the Authority of God to implement such teachings. Below is from this link.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heresy
St. Thomas defines heresy: 'a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas'
www.newadvent.org
".. Arianism is the first heresy that gained a strong footing in the Church and seriously endangered its very nature and existence. Arius appeared on the scene when theologians were endeavouring to harmonize the apparently contradictory doctrines of the unity of God and the Divinity of Christ. Instead of unravelling the knot, he simply cut it by bluntly asserting that Christ was not God like the Father, but a creature made in time. The simplicity of the solution, the ostentatious zeal of Arius for the defence of the "one God", his mode of life, his learning and dialectic ability won many to his side.
The Council of Nicaea anathematized the heresiarch, but its anathemas, like all the efforts of the Catholic bishops, were nullified by interference of the civil power. Constantine and his sister protected Arius and the Arians, and the next emperor, Constantius, assured the triumph of the heresy: the Catholics were reduced to silence by dire persecution. At once an internecine conflict began within the Arian pale, for heresy, lacking the internal cohesive element of authority, can only be held together by coercion either from friend or foe. Sects sprang up rapidly: they are known as Eunomians, Anomoeans, Exucontians, Semi-Arians, Acacians. The Emperor Valens (364-378) lent his powerful support to the Arians, and the peace of the Church was only secured when the orthodox Emperor Theodosius reversed the policy of his predecessors and sided with Rome. Within the boundaries of the Roman empire the faith of Nicaea, enforced again by the General Council of Constantinople (381), prevailed, but Arianism held its own for over two hundred years longer wherever the Arian Goths held sway: in Thrace, Italy, Africa, Spain, Gaul. The conversion of King Recared of Spain, who began to reign in 586, marked the end of Arianism in his dominions, and the triumph of the Catholic Franks sealed the doom of Arianism everywhere...."
I found a minefield of history about how the charge of Heresy was implemented and what foundation bible verses were behind it all. It appears the dominate got to define and set the standard where Heresy could be and would be applied.
It appears by the 600's a lot was sorted and the Nicene creed was well and truly adopted and by the Arius was an influence that was banished.
The interesting observation is that it was then that Muhammad received his first revelation and became a prophet in 610 CE at the age of 40 in the Cave of Hira, and then began publicly preaching of his message from around 613 CE.
One Teaching given was this verse An-Nisa 4:171
"O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Stop!—for your own good. Allah is only One God. Glory be to Him! He is far above having a son! To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And Allah is sufficient as a Trustee of Affairs."
The first question raised, is, With this Revelation, that Jesus is a Messenger of God and that the trinity was not an acceptable teaching, that Jesus was and "Anointed One", in this light, would Arius's views actually been heretical?
I guess this very question has been debated since the time this Revelation was made known to Christian clergy. Yet, as suggested, this concept was affirmed in the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, who came from an Islamic foundation.
The second question is, as I accept The One God and that Jesus Christ was Annointed of God as a Messiah, to bring humanity together in Love and Servitude to the One God, and thus each other, and as I live life with that knowledge, how does that make me an Heretic of the Message Jesus gave?
The above question in light of verses such as these
1 John 2:6"Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."
Romans 12:1–2 "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
Peace and Love to and for all.
Regards Tony