changes on the earth

i am not going run anyone around with questions in a group discussion. i usually ask once or twice & that is it.
some go clear to the other end of it & say totally metaphysical.

so what do you guys believe? or would you rather not & it might make for a better one on one.
 
Bandit said:
i am not going run anyone around with questions in a group discussion. i usually ask once or twice & that is it.
some go clear to the other end of it & say totally metaphysical.

so what do you guys believe? or would you rather not & it might make for a better one on one.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm getting confused. What do we believe about what?

lunamoth
 
Bandit said:
...what i do see is that all the blood was shed on Calvary, which is really a type of embalming today which would have preserved his physical body while in the tomb. part of the prophecy was that Jesus would not see & did not return to corruption. he was not in the tomb long enough for his flesh to corrupt. i think it is possible that the piercing & the holes in his hands were more like scars, say wounds or holes but healed scars & no scabs that you could peel off. (i dont know because i have never seen an immortal body yet)
Click to expand...

I do not doubt your thoughts, nor anyone else's for that matter. Because it is all an excersize in puzzle solving. However, this caught my attention so I thought I'd bring it up.

The temperature in a cave/tomb hewn from rock in the land of Israel can reach as high as 135 degree F during a spring/summer day (think middle east, not midwest) ;)

After one day (let alone three), a human body will build up gasses so great that the body looks like the goodyear blimp, and the smell is unbelievable. Jesus' body was definitely in a tomb long enough for the old shell to degenerate in rapid fashion.

I guess that is part of the miracle of His ressurection.

v/r

Q
 
lunamoth said:
Sorry, I'm getting confused. What do we believe about what?

lunamoth
Click to expand...

did the chicken come first or the egg?:)

it seems CHANGES ON THE EARTH is about what heaven on earth will be like for us...or something like that. the one(s) i know to compare it to is Jesus & Adam & Eve.

in one place it says flesh & blood will not inherit the kingdom...(paraphrased)

1)when we resurrect,
will we have mortal bodies with blood, immortal bodies with immortal flesh & bone -no blood- , or strictly metaphysical.?
OR- something different.
2)in the resurrection of Jesus the same question.

so far it seems more people think we will have literal blood & be like we are right now.

i think i will drop out of this for awhile & someday start it differently.:cool:
 
Quahom1 said:
I do not doubt your thoughts, nor anyone else's for that matter. Because it is all an excersize in puzzle solving. However, this caught my attention so I thought I'd bring it up.

The temperature in a cave/tomb hewn from rock in the land of Israel can reach as high as 135 degree F during a spring/summer day (think middle east, not midwest) ;)

After one day (let alone three), a human body will build up gasses so great that the body looks like the goodyear blimp, and the smell is unbelievable. Jesus' body was definitely in a tomb long enough for the old shell to degenerate in rapid fashion.

I guess that is part of the miracle of His ressurection.

v/r

Q
Click to expand...

yah. it was a miracle. that is for sure. no broken bones & the holy one would not see corruption.
that all looks good to me Q.:)
 
Bandit said:
did the chicken come first or the egg?:)

it seems CHANGES ON THE EARTH is about what heaven on earth will be like for us...or something like that. the one(s) i know to compare it to is Jesus & Adam & Eve.

in one place it says flesh & blood will not inherit the kingdom...(paraphrased)

1)when we resurrect,
will we have mortal bodies with blood, immortal bodies with immortal flesh & bone -no blood- , or strictly metaphysical.?
OR- something different.
2)in the resurrection of Jesus the same question.

so far it seems more people think we will have literal blood & be like we are right now.

i think i will drop out of this for awhile & someday start it differently.:cool:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but there is an awful lot of emphasis on blood in the Bible. Apparently it carries the essence of life within it. Let's see, the very blood of Able cried out to God for the wrong done to Able. We are not to consume the life blood of a animal lest we take very essence of that animal into ourselves. And when the guard saw that Jesus' blood had separated (into water and plasma), he knew Jesus was dead (that His life had left His body).

Jesus told us to drink from the cup, the cup containing everlasting life (his blood). His body for the forgiveness of sins, and his blood for everlasting life.

We are told that Jesus was warm to the touch, He was flush with life, he ate, he breathed, yet his face and body had a radience emmenating from it.

If He revealed Himself to be living again, He must have had enough of the natural functions and rythms of a living human to convince the faithful that He was in fact alive, and not a ghost, or a Spirit.

Just a thought. ;)

v/r

Q
 
For question #1, about our resurrection bodies:

Well, there's this:

35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[g]
55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"[h] 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:35-57)
Click to expand...

Does a grain of wheat resemble the whole plant? Does an acorn resemble the oak? I think the message is that the transformation to an imperishable body will be like nothing we can envision based upon what we know about our earthly bodies.

It's not our flesh that inherits the Kingdom of God--it will be (and is) that part of us that is eternal in Christ.

And then there's also this to ponder:

18Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19"Teacher," they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 20Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23At the resurrection[c] whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?"

24Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[d]? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!" (Mark 12:18-27)
Click to expand...

Again, Jesus says here that the risen dead will not behave or be like fleshly humans--they will be like angels (whatever angels are ;) ). And then He goes on to say that He, the I AM, is God of the living and says that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the patriarchs whose fleshy bodies have long been dead, are part of the living. The dead are part of the dead and the living flesh are part of the dead, (let the dead bury the dead). Yet, God is God of the living, those present past and future who belong to Him.

To me the message is that when we focus on earthly things, including our fleshy bodies, we are badly mistaken.

As far as question number 2, well, my own understanding of it is that He physically resurrected (and yes this literally happened) but this physical resurrection itself was a symbol for us because we are too limited to understand anything else. Material food and material signs for a material world to understand. But all pointing to Something More.

my 2 c,
lunamoth
 
Quahom1 said:
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...that is how my Bible states it. And there is a big difference between a mild-tempered person and a meek person.

The meek are those who are humble before God. Meekness has nothing to do with our lack of assertiveness toward others. Meekness has everything to do with our posture toward God.

There was once a student who went to study with a Zen master. They sat down for tea, and the student began to tell the master how hard he had worked to arrive at this moment: spending his entire life learning disciplines and studying ideas so that he would be worthy. As the student continued talking about his accomplishments, the master poured tea into his cup. The cup became full, and then it began to overflow; but the master kept pouring.

"Master! Stop!" said the student, "Can't you see you are spilling tea everywhere?"

The master stopped and looked at the student. "That is my point. You can't pour tea into a cup that is already full."

There is also a huge difference between "Happy are ..." and "Blessed are..."

This is how Matthew states it:

Blessed are the poor in spirit:​
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn:
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek:
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful:
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart:
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers:
for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye,
when men shall revile you,
and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for my sake.
Rejoice,
and be exceeding glad:
for great is your reward in heaven:
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you

According to your statements, and in light of this passage, some will be on earth and some will be in Heaven?​

That in and of itself is fine, as long as all get to be close to God.

Actually Mee, that is an outstanding concept. Not everyone wants to leave this world, but everyone wants the attention of God. Heaven afterall, was made for the angels and the government of God, wherein earth was made for man.

Personally, I don't want to live in a mansion with many rooms. I'd rather walk through the forests and woods, dive the seas, and trek through the deserts. I'd like to seek out the wonders of the Universe. I personally don't think Heaven would be a very good place for a soul with wanderlust. But I would like the company of God...

That would be - heavenly to me. ;)

Interesting thought you bring out.

v/r



Q
Click to expand...
many people say that this is refering to heaven ,but it is my belief that this scripture is refering to the earth ,With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away...rev 21;3-4when it mentions that God will be with them it doesnt mean that God will be litraly on the earth it means that

Jehovah will reside spiritually with "his peoples" in a permanent and direct way. (Compare John 4:23, 24.) What a lofty privilege for restored humanity .so yes ,as you mentioned man was made for the earth and it is Gods purpose to restore paradise conditions to the earth and his purpose will always be fullfilled
(Revelation 22:2) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations.

"Surely just as I have figured, so it must occur; and just as I have counseled, that is what will come true."—ISAIAH 14:24

Oh, if only our original parents had been satisfied with a similar "desirable" provision in Eden’s Paradise! (Genesis 2:9) But when the global Paradise is here, and Jehovah makes provision through the leaves of those symbolic trees for "the curing of the nations."those symbolic leaves will raise believing mankind to spiritual and bodily perfection


 
Heres some scripture you guys might be interested in.

John 20:24-29
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord." So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." 26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
NKJV

Rev 3:11-12
12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
NKJV
Rev 21:1-4
21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
NKJV
1 Cor 15:51-58
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV

OK Maybe what we think of angels/spirits are not correct. When we think of a spirit we think ghostly, but maybe its not as it seems. Maybe you can touch angel/spirit. Some compelling arguements would be about the nephelim (meaning fallen angels) and their offsprings(meaning men of valour, or Giants).
 
what a wonderful hope the bible holds out,do you think that Jehovahs purpose for the people to live in an earthly paradise will ever be realized ?

Remember the first things of a long time ago, that I am the Divine One and there is no other God, nor anyone like me; the One telling from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things that have not been done; the One saying, ‘My own counsel will stand, and everything that is my delight I shall do’; the One calling from the sunrising a bird of prey, from a distant land the man to execute my counsel. I have even spoken [it]; I shall also bring it in. I have formed [it], I shall also do it...Isaiah 46; 9-11

my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it Isaiah 55;11yes it was Gods original purpose that mankind live forever on the earth with no sickness and no death , his original purpose has not changed and it will come true

The righteous themselves will possess the earth

And they will reside forever upon it..psalm 37;11obviously this has not happened yet.people now get sick and die, they even fight and kill one another.something went wrong.surely,however,God did not purpose that the earth should be as we see it today.look how Jesus showed on a small scale how easy it will be to heal people in the coming paradise on earth. even to raise the dead ,Jesus showed us on a small scale what it will be like on a large scale when he will do away with sickness and death on the earth .wow what a wonderful hope from Gods word the bible .yes man was made the earth and Gods pupose will come true .i cant wait for that time .and even if we die , there is still the hope to live on the earth ,because of the resurrection hope .what a loving God to make the way out of sickness and death through Jesus christ
As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing 1 corinthians15;26

(Matthew 28:18) And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth



(1 Corinthians 15:25) For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feetyes Gods purpose will come true through his son Jesus christ


 
"Jehovahs purpose for the people to live in an earthly paradise will ever be realized "

Whaaaahhh??? Do you mean this world With all the killings, murders, rapes, molestations, satanistics, homosexuality, anti God, anti Christ, wars, and rumors of wars runnig ramped. Or are we refering to the world to come?

Dont forget this scripture my brother:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
NKJV
 
Curios Mike said:
"Jehovahs purpose for the people to live in an earthly paradise will ever be realized "

Whaaaahhh??? Do you mean this world With all the killings, murders, rapes, molestations, satanistics, homosexuality, anti God, anti Christ, wars, and rumors of wars runnig ramped. Or are we refering to the world to come?

Dont forget this scripture my brother:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
NKJV
Click to expand...
yes thats the one a new heavenly rulership gods heavenly kingdom and a new earthly society of people
 
Maybe I'm mistaken if I am please forgive me, but Its my understanding that you are a Jehovahs witness. If so it is also my understanding that They believe this has already happend? But not sure? Was I miss informed? And what is the main differencess between Jehovahs witness, and main stream Christianity? Not their simularities but differences?
 
Curios Mike said:
Maybe I'm mistaken if I am please forgive me, but Its my understanding that you are a Jehovahs witness. If so it is also my understanding that They believe this has already happend? But not sure? Was I miss informed? And what is the main differencess between Jehovahs witness, and main stream Christianity? Not their simularities but differences?
Click to expand...
yes i am one of JW and the hope of paradise on the earth ,will be fullfilled. but at this point in time the earth as we know it is in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil)so as you said there is war,ect,ect,but it is the promice of God that the earth will be bought back to paradise conditions .the differences between JW and christendom is that JW have not taken on the manmade doctrine of the trinity. we believe what the bible says , that Jesus christ is the only begotten son of God the first born son of God.also we do not believe in the hellfire doctrine . we also do not believe in the immortality of the human soul as this is a Greek philosophy and not based on scripture.we believe that a limited number will be going to heaven to rule with christ as kings and priests.but the majority of people have the hope of living forever on a paradise earth forever .even those who are dead have the hope of a resurrection into a paradise earththere are other things that differ but that is the main things
 
mee said:
JW have not taken on the manmade doctrine of the trinity. we believe what the bible says , that Jesus christ is the only begotten son of God the first born son of God.also we do not believe in the hellfire doctrine . we also do not believe in the immortality of the human soul as this is a Greek philosophy and not based on scripture.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting I see some minor differences, but possibly one or 2 major! I've underlined the differences, and will show you the scriptures why I beleive in these doctorines, and try not to make baliteling remarks about your beliefs. I may not agree, but I respect them. Do you'll also believe in salvation? I guess what I'd like to know is what are the similarities.

1st off the trinity:
1 John 5:6-7
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV
Matt 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
NKJV
John 1:1-5
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
NKJV (((( Notice we do not have an (a) between "was God". Keep in mind this translation and the ones following it aside from JW does not have (a) between" was God"))) If these scriptures are not clear enough then I will agree to disagree :) .

2) Hell fire (I agree to an extend being that hell and the lake of fire are 2 different things)

Matt 5:22
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. NKJV (uhhh:eek: Maybe their is fire and hell. This scripture is pretty clear. I may have to take back what I thought.)

Matt 13:41-42
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
NKJV

Matt 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
NKJV

Luke 16:23-24
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
NKJV

I'll stop with that one, but their are alot of Scriptures that talk of hell, and fire, but their are the ones about the lake of fire where death and hell will be cast into those.(If you would lik eI'll post those on my next post.)

3)Last but not least Immortal souls:


1 Cor 15:51-54
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
NKJV


ohhh ps: Jesus christ is the only begotten son of God Yes we believe this also.:)

So theirs one similarity... what are the others? Do yall believe in salvation, Holy spirit, .....whatelse?
 
yes ,they are major differences and i think i am correct in saying that JW are the only ones that do not believe in the immortality of the soul. this belief has hidden the true fact that we were not given a soul but we are a soul .yes we have to dig a bit deeper to not go along with the rest
 
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
NKJV

1 Thess 5:23
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV

Anyways back on subject: Would changes on the earth include politics, wars, and a small chip called a very chip?
 
Curios Mike said:
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
NKJV

1 Thess 5:23
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV

Anyways back on subject: Would changes on the earth include politics, wars, and a small chip called a very chip?
Click to expand...
changes that come about through Gods kingdom goverment will involve the political element as there will only be one Goverment world wide , with Jesus as king of that Goverment Daniel 2;44 and the bible tells us that we will learn war nomore so there will be no war either
And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken it...micah 4;3-4i know i am a bit thick but what are you refering to when you say chip are you refering to money:) :confused:

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top