Santa Theory

17th Angel

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Have you seen the little piggies crawling in the d
Doesn't anyone else find it odd...

Christmas time, a time for love and a time to remeber Jesus... But the younger generations what is Christmas time? A time for greed! Presents! Freebies! Santa!!! YAY! Santa is too close to Satan if you ask me.... My theory is Satan, made the Santa 'thing' to make people forget about Christ and love and think more to material objects.... Seems Satan attempts to fool the younger generations and make them forget... Just a quick random thought, throwing it out there, feed back over?
 
some people see it that way. some churches go on the war path over all that. personally it never had any negative impact on my relationship with God & the bible. i would have felt a little left out if it were not for christmas presents & visiting santa...i mean we get the whole thing figured out by the time we are about 8 or 9 years old & go through the whole "DO YOU BELIEVE IN SANTA" thing. i think a little innocent imagination is a good thing for children.

i am glad i figured out how to refrain from the entire retail thing, considering they will be putting out Christmas decorations in about 2 more weeks. Time for the 12 weeks of Christmas to begin.:eek:
 
17th Angel said:
Obviously coming from the background I come from... I have no wish to buy people Christmas presents.... That make me bad Bandit?

i dont know. i stopped buying them too, except for a couple of things.
the retail thing has nothing to do with the real Christmas of Jesus. IMO

i think it is more for children & buying them a bunch of gifts, & they think it came from santa. whatever they wish for.
it will be intersting to hear what others here think about it all too.
 
I'm with you on this Bandit; Santa is a fun and innocent thing for children. Like most I get dismayed with the rampant materialism that it often promotes these days but I still think it is well within the control of parents to emphasize the giving over the receiving and use it to discuss the gifts that God has given us all, especially in Christ.

my 2 c
lunamoth
 
Santa is not about materialism - Santa is the embodiment of Karma in action, where the good receive consequences of good action...

:)
 
I dont know whether Santa is good or bad, but I do know one thing, Christmas (as we call it today) has bugger all to do with Jesus!

The date of Christmas was stolen from the Pagans who originally celebrated the winter solstace. When the Christians arrived the festival was twisted into a Christian celebration. Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, Mary did not kiss the Holy Spirit under the miseltoe, Yule logs, Holly, Christmas Trees, present giving, its all Pagan!

This is why it drives me crazy when Christians harp on about ignoring Jesus on Christmas.

If you're a Christian then by all means, have a drink for Jesus, but don't try to spoil it for the rest of us, OK? I'm just in it for the brandy!!
 
Awaiting_the_fifth said:
I dont know whether Santa is good or bad, but I do know one thing, Christmas (as we call it today) has bugger all to do with Jesus!

The date of Christmas was stolen from the Pagans who originally celebrated the winter solstace. When the Christians arrived the festival was twisted into a Christian celebration. Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, Mary did not kiss the Holy Spirit under the miseltoe, Yule logs, Holly, Christmas Trees, present giving, its all Pagan!

This is why it drives me crazy when Christians harp on about ignoring Jesus on Christmas.

If you're a Christian then by all means, have a drink for Jesus, but don't try to spoil it for the rest of us, OK? I'm just in it for the brandy!!

LOL Awaiting! Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus? Well, there are at least some Christians out there that might agree with you I guess.

Enjoy your egg nog and don't be a Scrooge. :p

just teasing,
lunamoth
 
I said:
Santa is not about materialism - Santa is the embodiment of Karma in action, where the good receive consequences of good action...

:)

yes very true. how can you explain that to a 5 year old. LOL

>>>>
he sees you when your sleeping, he knows if you were bad or good
better watch out, better not cry, better not pout, i'm telling you why....Santa is not about toys & candy. you get a lump of coal.

it actually works out for the parents advantage in some ways .:)
 
That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

:eek:

But seriously, I never had a problem with Santa. I generally detest the materialistic version of him, but my mother taught a belief in Santa as a spirit of giving, as Saint Nicolas exemplified. My sister and I had a "Santa" who brought us one big present each we had longed for during the year, which was very meaningful to us since we were poor. But more than that, "Santa" left us letters about what he had seen us do during that year that made him proud of us. We'd wait in anticipation for those letters at least as much as the gift. He brought gifts until we were out of elementary school, but the letters continued to adulthood. Meanwhile, we were taught that in the spirit of giving, we were to be "Santa" to others, and so we always adopted two kids from orphanages each year for whom to buy small gifts. In that way, Santa never competed with Jesus, though even as a kid, I deeply always felt a tie to the Pagan roots of the Solstice and with more knowledge celebrate with the tree, holly boughs, and mistletoe with greater appreciation. Christmas always was my favorite holiday though, not for the materialism or for the birth of Jesus, but for the bringing of nature into the house, for the gathering of family, and the joy of giving.
 
path_of_one said:
That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

:eek:

But seriously, I never had a problem with Santa. I generally detest the materialistic version of him, but my mother taught a belief in Santa as a spirit of giving, as Saint Nicolas exemplified. My sister and I had a "Santa" who brought us one big present each we had longed for during the year, which was very meaningful to us since we were poor. But more than that, "Santa" left us letters about what he had seen us do during that year that made him proud of us. We'd wait in anticipation for those letters at least as much as the gift. He brought gifts until we were out of elementary school, but the letters continued to adulthood. Meanwhile, we were taught that in the spirit of giving, we were to be "Santa" to others, and so we always adopted two kids from orphanages each year for whom to buy small gifts. In that way, Santa never competed with Jesus, though even as a kid, I deeply always felt a tie to the Pagan roots of the Solstice and with more knowledge celebrate with the tree, holly boughs, and mistletoe with greater appreciation. Christmas always was my favorite holiday though, not for the materialism or for the birth of Jesus, but for the bringing of nature into the house, for the gathering of family, and the joy of giving.

Wow path of one. Your posts can inspire me even when they are in somewhat silly threads about Santa. :) I do believe I will be writing Santa letters to my girls this year. As a family we have "adopted" another family for Christmas in the past, and my older daughter was very invovled in helping me shop for that last year. I also like the idea of one special gift, rather than lots.

cheers,
lunamoth
 
path_of_one said:
That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

that is so different from me. i always felt like extra comfort or protection thinking santa was watching. not literally in the room, but some special way & was i glad because i thought he was a good man.
so interesting how different ones see all that.
i remember some kids being scared to death to sit on his lap & talk to him, but i never got that feeling. santa became real when you would go sit on his lap & real when you left the cookies for him to eat. the whole thing is so stupid, but it actually brought a lot of joy to my youth.

then you had the kids who wanted to pull his beard to see if the beard was real.:)
interesting.
 
Kindest Regards, all!

Oh my!

I see some very insightful posts here! Thanks!

To a degree I agree with Awaiting, Dec 25 is not Jesus' birthday, he was born in late September or early October (the shepherds were still in the fields with their flocks, too cold in December). Most of the trappings of Christmas are Pagan in origin. And Christianity did grab the holiday for itself as part of the "christification" (is that a word?) of the pagan masses of Europe, probably during the reign of Charlemagne.

There is an interesting little passage in Jeremiah regarding this. Let's see if I can find it...Jeremiah 10:2-5; "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

For a long time I resisted the celebration of Christmas, but all around me, and more importantly family and friends, would drag me into it. Lately I have put my focus on "they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good." I take a somewhat neutral position on Christmas.

Perhaps it is a bit of wavering on my part, but the last few years I have gone ahead and participated, albeit in a muted manner. I do like the Christmas tree, and it forms for me a way to honor memories of family and friends. Since Christmas has been co-opted to celebrate the birth of Christ, I keep that in rememberance too.

I do not, however, promote "Santa." Depending where I am at, I will play along so as not to spoil things at a friend's house, but in my own home I will not encourage the teaching of Santa Claus.

I think the lament that worries me most about the season is when people cry about "why can't we have the spirit of Christmas all year long?" To which I find myself replying, "what is stopping you?"

PS, path...great idea about the letters. I'm going to have to remember that this year.
 
This is where I dont see eye to eye with a lot of people... I do the santa thing with my kids for the first 5years but my daughter was way too quick to figure out that santa has the same wrapping paper as mom used.. lol and whoa santa has the same handwriting too .. lol I didnt go into long stories with her about how hes watching her to see if shes good or bad.. thats just creepy to me also. We made the cookies and she wanted to sleep on the couch etc.. Thats a fun time to kids and its not hurting God in any means allowing my kids that festival.. I also teach my kids about baby Jesus and we have a nativity scene and she asked more questions about THAT than she did santa. I do not believe she knows that Jesus was not actually born then and that we just celebrate His birthday that day.. I do not believe it matters.. There were times in my life where I celebrated my birthday on days other than my birthday... and same goes with her. It did not make the day any less wonderful.
 
Faithfulservant said:
This is where I dont see eye to eye with a lot of people... I do the santa thing with my kids for the first 5years but my daughter was way too quick to figure out that santa has the same wrapping paper as mom used.. lol and whoa santa has the same handwriting too .. lol I didnt go into long stories with her about how hes watching her to see if shes good or bad.. thats just creepy to me also. We made the cookies and she wanted to sleep on the couch etc.. Thats a fun time to kids and its not hurting God in any means allowing my kids that festival.. I also teach my kids about baby Jesus and we have a nativity scene and she asked more questions about THAT than she did santa. I do not believe she knows that Jesus was not actually born then and that we just celebrate His birthday that day.. I do not believe it matters.. There were times in my life where I celebrated my birthday on days other than my birthday... and same goes with her. It did not make the day any less wonderful.

definately. when we all go to the store, but have to sit with dad in the car & we cant look in the bags that mom comes out with & we hear hours of wrapping & taping inside the bedroom... later we find all the wrapped presents in there bedroom closet & under the bed.
once the santa story wore off, the Jesus story was still there. it was like two seperate things all together for us.

I am not sure when my son figured it all out.
What was it like for you Faithful, as a child?
i am wondering if it was different for the girls than the boys.
 
lol I dont remember ever believing in santa.. I remember being with my brothers and listening to my parents wrap the presents.. My older brother probably clued me into the truth early on. hehe
 
yah, i think it happens that way too. i let my younger brothers believe in it until they figured it out. i always thought it was cute when kids figured it out & asked others if they believed in it & sometimes tried to convince others it was true. it was like they were growing up real fast when they would say, I dont believe in Santa. yet, inside they were still getting it figured out themselves.
 
oldie but a goodie:)

SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE

Not quite "Twas the Night Before Christmas", but definitely an interesting perspective on what Santa's busiest day of the year entails.

SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE
There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical).

This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney,fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks.

This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second--3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour. The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them--Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch). 600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance--this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere.

The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip. Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m.p.s. in .001 seconds, would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,500 g's. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering blob of pink goo. Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now sorry.... Merry Christmas!
 
Bandit, that's hilarious...but your engineer is forgetting that not all Christian children receive their presents from Santa...as far as I know he's pretty much an American (and Canadian?) phenomenon...

Granted, my ideas of a British Christmas come pretty much straight from Dickens and Albert Finney, but I know there are a lot of Brits on this site to set me straight...last I heard, you guys got Father Christmas, a tall skinny guy, or has Santa taken over his route? And France and Spain, and I believe most of South America, get their presents from the Christ Child Himself. Here in the Netherlands, it's the original Saint Nicholas, another tall skinny guy dressed like a bishop (and oddly enough he lives in Spain). In Scandinavia it's the Christmas Gnome (don't ask), and I have no idea who comes to well-behaved Christian children in Asia, Africa, Australia, or Eastern Europe, for that matter.

And path of one, those Santa letters are a beautiful idea - your mom was a great woman.
I don't have any problem with Santa - I see him as the spirit of generosity too. I think most kids outgrow him quickly enough that it doesn't do any harm. I think it's more dependent on the atmosphere in the home that determines how materialistic kids are at Christmas.
 
SANTACLAUS-sm.jpg
*chuckle* I find it mildly amusing that Santa, of all the jolly old characters from history, might be singled out as Satan's ruse. This is notwithstanding the fact that his name can easily be misspelled, and I've always enjoyed that. Makes for a neat Futurama episode!

Apologies if I haven't sifted through this thread to see the history that someone else provided, but of course, I think we all know that in truth, the idea of Santa comes from St. Nicholas, a Turkish saint of the 4th Century AD. Sadly, Emperor Diocletian persecuted and imprisoned Bishop Nicholas.

The fact that Santa has come to symbolize with some the materialism and greed of modern civilization, esp. western civilization, and more particularly America ... is a tragedy, indeed. Santa Claus has always been a beautiful symbol of selflessness, generosity and kind-heartedness. But we have borrowed the image and degraded its true worth. We have pulled him down to the same level of the false deity that millions pray to daily to fulfil our own, selfish wishes. Children are now taught - as if it was always custom - to make their list of toys for Santa to deliver. In return, they need only dream of sugar plums. What good are switches and coal if we never deliver them!

I am amazed and disgusted to see the ultra-conservatives, both religiously and politically speaking, launching their crusade at the video game industry, as if these greedy corporate executives could really give a damn about sex and violence in video games. It's so ridiculous it makes me rofl, as the violence in these games is really just excellent training/conditioning for going on a killfest later in the armed services ... but the moment you see a cartoon figure pulling a Janet Jackson all hell breaks loose. Morals!!! Decency!!! The horror, the horror!!! :p

What does this have to do with Santa? Simple. Instead of looking around for signs that Satan is seeking to deceive us with jolly old elves, and similarly instead of placing blame for our children's behavioral problems with the video game industry (of all things) ... wouldn't it be wiser to look at our parenting!?! Ahhh, geeee, really?:rolleyes: It's amazing that kids don't sprout horns, tails, and forked tongues given the way they're raised these days. And lest I sound like some old geezer talkin' bout the good ol' days when I was young (33 is pretty young, isn't it?) ... I might just add that I was allowed to be a little hellion, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I don't blame my parents, because I was rather unruly, but ultimately, if parents and early schooling doesn't get kids on the right track - is it any wonder that video games don't straighten them out later? :p And then that pesky, evil Santa Claus gets ahold of 'em ... whoa be it!

(somewhat tongue in cheek .... )
protokletos
 
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