Christians converting to Islam and Judaism

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by Dondi
Does the Spirit of God reside in other religions/belief systems?
Originally Posted by Dondi
Yes, but what I was aiming for is: To what extent as compared to Christianity? Are other religions incomplete in their experiencing the Spirit of God? Or are they just experiencing a different facet of the Spirit of God?

I say yes. But then, you already knew that...

Folks - this seems to be headed to a "my religion is better than your religion" argument - which is inappropriate here. So far it's stayed almost within the Code of Conduct (or at least not so far over that the mods have had to step in) - but it's headed in the wrong direction. To all of you - read your posts - are you attackng other religions? Other posters? Preaching at them? If so, don't post it. Discussion is good - preaching is bad.

In this area, ALL of the abrahamic religions are to be respected, please.

... Bruce

Hi bruce. I didn't want to turn this into a topic on whether one "religion" is better than another, as indeed God said ALL NATIONS through Abram, and this was said to him before his name was changed to Abraham.

This means all Abrahamic religions that believe unto the One true God of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob are partakers with him and His Spirit, regardless of religion or creed.

Isaac and Ishmael were born "seperate", whereas Jacob and Esau were born "twins", though God distinquished them differently.

I believe it is all deeply "symbolic", but Abrahamic religions just view it in different ways. I hope to keep this thread in the spirit of Love and Peace for ALL religions.

Being Christ-ian though, Christ is the "Cornerstone" of my belief and Faith.
Steve

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I [am] Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 "And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many Nations. 6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make Nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

 

[bruceg]

One thing to remember, is that the terminology you know from *your* religion may not be applicable to others. The Christian concept of "the spirit of god" is not necessarily reflected in Judaism or Islam... and in fact was argued about a fair bit in early Christianity.

 

[Bandit]

LOL. Not if you have the "Spirit" of Peace, Love and Truth.

if you are trying to say all religions are the same & all religions are baptized with the Holy Ghost...um..i dont think so.

just give peace love & truth about 5 minutes for each religion & each man to define what that means & you will see-they are not the same.

 

[InChristAlways]

One thing to remember, is that the terminology you know from *your* religion may not be applicable to others. The Christian concept of "the spirit of god" is not necessarily reflected in Judaism or Islam... and in fact was argued about a fair bit in early Christianity.

Hi bruce. I am not really well versed on "early christianity" after the Cross, except what the book of Acts talks about or perhaps Josephus [providing he is a reliable "witness"?], so perhaps I need to spend more time on that?
Revelation is also another important highly "symbolic" book that I study on in relation to that and the rest of the Christ-ian Bible.
Steve

 

[Dondi]

if you are trying to say all religions are the same & all religions are baptized with the Holy Ghost...um..i dont think so.

just give peace love & truth about 5 minutes for each religion & each man to define what that means & you will see-they are not the same.

Indeed, each religion will have their own perspective on what the Spirit of God means or how God operates in the Spirit according to the dictates of that respective religion. But as far as the Abrahamic religions are concerned, there is One God, who is Spirit. We as humans have to deal with what that means. Can His Spirit abide in us, or does operate outside the heart of man? Can we know Him intimately or is He detached? Does He help us obey through the power of His Spirit or does He leave it up to our strength? Whatever the case, I don't think God is limited by people's beliefs. Maybe God would deal with us according to how we adhere to what we believe, even if we have it all wrong about Him. Wouldn't God judge us within the dictates of our hearts and not our head?

 

[Dondi]

Revelation is also another important highly "symbolic" book that I study on in relation to that and the rest of the Christ-ian Bible.
Steve

Off topic:

InChristAlways:

I noticed you seem to have a fondness for the book of Revelation. Is there a specific reason for this? Do you hold Revelation in a higher light than the rest of scripture? Just curious.

 

[Bandit]

Indeed, each religion will have their own perspective on what the Spirit of God means or how God operates in the Spirit according to the dictates of that respective religion. But as far as the Abrahamic religions are concerned, there is One God, who is Spirit. We as humans have to deal with what that means. Can His Spirit abide in us, or does operate outside the heart of man? Can we know Him intimately or is He detached? Does He help us obey through the power of His Spirit or does He leave it up to our strength? Whatever the case, I don't think God is limited by people's beliefs. Maybe God would deal with us according to how we adhere to what we believe, even if we have it all wrong about Him. Wouldn't God judge us within the dictates of our hearts and not our head?

i dont know why it is the way it is & i do not have the answer to all questions. all i know is all these religions are not in agreement & they are not the same. & i also know i am not the 'J'udge.

 

[InChristAlways]

Indeed, each religion will have their own perspective on what the Spirit of God means or how God operates in the Spirit according to the dictates of that respective religion. But as far as the Abrahamic religions are concerned, there is One God, who is Spirit. We as humans have to deal with what that means. Can His Spirit abide in us, or does operate outside the heart of man? Can we know Him intimately or is He detached? Does He help us obey through the power of His Spirit or does He leave it up to our strength? Whatever the case, I don't think God is limited by people's beliefs. Maybe God would deal with us according to how we adhere to what we believe, even if we have it all wrong about Him. Wouldn't God judge us within the dictates of our hearts and not our head?

InChristAlways:

I noticed you seem to have a fondness for the book of Revelation. Is there a specific reason for this? Do you hold Revelation in a higher light than the rest of scripture? Just curious.

I hold it in the same Light as the rest of the Inspired Scriptures .

After all it does show Christ having died, being raised and ascended to God and wonder why it is not discussed more in relation to the rest of the Christian Bible. Peace,
Steve

 

[wil]

We have ecumenical services at our church annualy. How interesting one year when it occurred on 9/11/01. It proceeds 24 hours of prayer. That night, the night of the towers collapsing, the pentagon burning, and a plane load of citizens lost in Pensylvania...

We had Christianity, Judaism, and Islam represented, as well as Hinduism, Taoism, Sufism, Native American, Bahai, Buddhism, and Janism represented....more are invited each year, and each year we have a variety of spiritual practices which send their emmissaries...

No one is ever told a topic, sometimes some of them reflect as to why they are the best, but most of the time they talk about some tennent or concept and the way they view it.

On 9/11, they all talked on peace and love.

just give peace love & truth about 5 minutes for each religion & each man to define what that means & you will see-they are not the same.

and afterwords we were all amazed as to how similar each priest, rabbi, cleric, etc... all said the same thing...this service is always very moving and very enlightening...that year, that day with emotions so high and all of them personally driven to the exact same topic, it was beautiful.

On a side note, another experience I get to take away each year from this event is the singing, the singing of prayers and chants in a variety of languages, languages I don't understand, but the songs give me goosebumps. I so enjoy going to the services of other religions and watching and learning...I know God is in those people and those buildings.

 

[InChristAlways]

We had Christianity, Judaism, and Islam represented, as well as Hinduism, Taoism, Sufism, Native American, Bahai, Buddhism, and Janism represented....more are invited each year, and each year we have a variety of spiritual practices which send their emmissaries...

Hi will. That is great. I was asked about why I focus on the book of revelation and wonder if you ever discuss that book with other religions or among your group. Do you yourself view it as an inspired book? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Dondi

InChristAlways:

I noticed you seem to have a fondness for the book of Revelation. Is there a specific reason for this? Do you hold Revelation in a higher light than the rest of scripture? Just curious.

I hold it in the same Light as the rest of the Inspired Scriptures .

After all it does show Christ having died, being raised and ascended to God and wonder why it is not discussed more in relation to the rest of the Christian Bible. Peace,
Steve

 

[wil]

I was asked about why I focus on the book of revelation and wonder if you ever discuss that book with other religions or among your group. Thanks.

In a word, no. When they ask me questions about one aspect of my beliefs or the other, we discuss it. Mostly when I am in discussion with another or commuting I am inquiring as to particulars of their belief systems.

When I am in their religious facilities, I am again, inquiring as to what I am seeing and the spiritual significance. I get to constantly marvel at not just the similarities but also the myriad of various and valid ways of looking at things.

Covey tells us to seek first to understand then to be understood.

God gave us two ears, two eyes, two nostrils, ten fingers, a brain and one mouth. Which means we should spend less than 6% of the time pontificating, when compared to listening, seeing, smelling, feeling, and thinking...

 

[Bandit]

On 9/11, they all talked on peace and love. and afterwords we were all amazed as to how similar each priest, rabbi, cleric, etc... all said the same thing...this service is always very moving and very enlightening...that year, that day with emotions so high and all of them personally driven to the exact same topic, it was beautiful.

On a side note, another experience I get to take away each year from this event is the singing, the singing of prayers and chants in a variety of languages, languages I don't understand, but the songs give me goosebumps. I so enjoy going to the services of other religions and watching and learning...I know God is in those people and those buildings.

you KNOW God is in those people?
everyone TALKS about it, when it comes down to the wire they are not seeing it the same way or saying the same thing. you may convince yourself they are all the same & maybe that is your goal. Christians dont even see things the same way. jews dont even see everything the same & neither do muslims.

if they are all the same then this thread is el stupido- there is no need for conversions.

 

[InChristAlways]

I was asked about why I focus on the book of revelation and wonder if you ever discuss that book with other religions or among your group. Thanks.

In a word, no. When they ask me questions about one aspect of my beliefs or the other, we discuss it. Mostly when I am in discussion with another or commuting I am inquiring as to particulars of their belief systems.

When I am in their religious facilities, I am again, inquiring as to what I am seeing and the spiritual significance. I get to constantly marvel at not just the similarities but also the myriad of various and valid ways of looking at things.

Covey tells us to seek first to understand then to be understood.

God gave us two ears, two eyes, two nostrils, ten fingers, a brain and one mouth. Which means we should spend less than 6% of the time pontificating, when compared to listening, seeing, smelling, feeling, and thinking...

you KNOW God is in those people?
everyone TALKS about it, when it comes down to the wire they are not seeing it the same way or saying the same thing. you may convince yourself they are all the same & maybe that is your goal. Christians dont even see things the same way. jews dont even see everything the same & neither do muslims.

if they are all the same then this thread is el stupido- there is no need for conversions.

Christ-ians and Muslims both believe in Christ.

Then in essence the book of revelation is relegated to the "back burner" when discussing Christ-ianity with others?

For example, how would others know what God is talking about concerning making "all things New"? What does that mean to Christ-ianity and how do we convey that to others not of the Christ-ian Faith?

Steve

Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing, Now it shall spring forth; Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness [And] rivers in the desert.

Reve 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.

 

[Bandit]

Christ-ians and Muslims both believe in Christ.

Then in essence the book of revelation is relegated to the "back burner" when discussing Christ-ianity with others?

For example, how would others know what God is talking about concerning making "all things New"? What does that mean to Christ-ianity and how do we convey that to others not of the Christ-ian Faith?

Steve

Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing, Now it shall spring forth; Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness [And] rivers in the desert.

Reve 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.

i dont know about that. i have seen a couple of muslims right here at CR speak about Revelations & i am usually right on the same target as they are.

maybe all 'things' new is refering to people water of life is the Spirit of God almighty dweilling in us. i dont think you are going to get real far with the NT with very many people who do not believe Jesus is the way the truth & the life...but you can try

i think IS 43 is speaking of Jesus & the Holy Ghost in our lives as well.

Everyone is thirsting for God but too many are not seeking for God in spirit & truth (& that goes for Christians & all religions) they are doing it in some form of ritual or tradition or dogmatic absolutes that religious leaders make up.

some of this stuff is to the point, especially on these boards where people do not know what to believe because there are contradicting statements everywhere in discussions & i do not know how to pull all that together & make it all the SAME, because it is not all the same.

i am off for the weekend so have a good one & peace to you, InChristAlways.

& no, i am not converting or joining anything.

 

[truthseeker]

It appears to me that this thread was for those who are against conversion.

I don't think that being against other religions is part of the initiation of Christianity. I happen to find that alot of the positive elements of other religions are a part of Christianity. Some people need the fundamentalism to help perfect their walk with God but I don't think it makes you less fit to walk with God because you are incorporating other aspects of understanding into your spiritual lifestyle . It is a part of the growth process.

 

[InChristAlways]

quote ICA:....... Then in essence the Book of Revelation is relegated to the "back burner" when discussing Christ-ianity with others?........

quote bandit:i dont know about that. i have seen a couple of muslims right here at CR speak about Revelations & i am usually right on the same target as they are.

maybe all 'things' new is refering to people water of life is the Spirit of God almighty dweilling in us. i dont think you are going to get real far with the NT with very many people who do not believe Jesus is the way the truth & the life...but you can try

i think IS 43 is speaking of Jesus & the Holy Ghost in our lives as well.

Everyone is thirsting for God but too many are not seeking for God in spirit & truth (& that goes for Christians & all religions) they are doing it in some form of ritual or tradition or dogmatic absolutes that religious leaders make up.

some of this stuff is to the point, especially on these boards where people do not know what to believe because there are contradicting statements everywhere in discussions & i do not know how to pull all that together & make it all the SAME, because it is not all the same.

i am off for the weekend so have a good one & peace to you, InChristAlways.

& no, i am not converting or joining anything.

It appears to me that this thread was for those who are against conversion.

I don't think that being against other religions is part of the initiation of Christianity. I happen to find that alot of the positive elements of other religions are a part of Christianity. Some people need the fundamentalism to help perfect their walk with God but I don't think it makes you less fit to walk with God because you are incorporating other aspects of understanding into your spiritual lifestyle . It is a part of the growth process.

Hi truthseeker. I would not mind if this thread is closed as I was really was after why Christ-ians that convert or turn Atheists lose their belief that Christ was the Son of God/Son of Man as spoken of in the Christ-ian NT including the book of revelation.

One passage in the NT stands out to me and actually opened my eyes wider concerning the Bible and the book of revelation and this goes all the way back to Adam and the New Thing God would bring to Mankind.

I will not respond anymore to this thread and if the moderators feel it has served its purpose, they may close it. Peace.
Steve

1 corin 15:45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man [was] ofthe earth, [made] of dust; the second Man [is] the Lord from heaven. 48 As [was] the [man] of dust, so also [are] those [who are made] of dust; and as [is] the heavenly [Man,] so also [are] those [who are] heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the [man] of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [Man.]

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=53470#post53470

CHRISTIANITY " All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." Matthew 7:12

ISLAM " No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself." Hadith

JUDAISM " What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow man. That is the law, all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 3la

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hmmm... apparently I'm too late with this, as the original poster has declared he wouldn't respond to this thread anymore. Maybe, if you wanted to hear from non-Christians, the Comparative forum might have attracted a broader audience? In any case, I am a former Christian who has turned to another religion - not an Abrahamic religion, though.

I didn't ever actually reject the Bible, but the way I looked at it changed. I still believe that the Spirit and word of God can be found through reading it. I know there are lots of contradictions, pretty much what you'd expect from something written by so many people over such a huge timespan. I take the contradictions with a grain of salt and don't expect the Bible to be historically accurate anymore.

And yes, I was familiar with the Bible. In the denomination I was a part of, the service included reading parts of the Bible, and it was structured so that over a three-year period you had gotten through almost the entire Bible, both Old and New Testament. I was able to quote large parts of it from memory and for many years read it on my own daily.

What I rejected was the idea that the belief that Jesus Christ died and was resurrected to wash away our sins is the ONLY way to get close to God and attain salvation. I also got fed up with the hypocrisy I saw in organized Christianity, among both clergy and lay people.

I believe that belief in Jesus Christ is one way to get closer to God, but I don't believe that Christians hold a monopoly on salvation or the Holy Spirit.

At the risk of flaming I personally believe that people that go from Christian to another faith were either not fully committed to Jesus Christ or had not been baptized by the Holy Spirit.

I hugely, hugely, strongly disagree, at least in my case. I was committed to Jesus Christ. I was planning to enter seminary. I realize that there is no proof I can offer of having been baptized by the Holy Spirit, but as far as I am concerned, I have been.

The thing is, I don't feel that the blessings of the Spirit have been taken away from me as I have moved away from Christianity. I think it was Dondi who said in an earlier post that Christians are not the only ones who experience God's Spirit. And Dondi, this quote of yours:

Whatever the case, I don't think God is limited by people's beliefs. Maybe God would deal with us according to how we adhere to what we believe, even if we have it all wrong about Him. Wouldn't God judge us within the dictates of our hearts and not our head?

is fantastic. I couldn't agree more. This is something I've believed for about 14 years (well within the time period when I still considered myself Christian) but have never been able to articulate so beautifully. Thank you.

In case you are still interested, I moved away from Christianity into first Taoism, then later Wicca.

 

[Bandit]

hey Scarlet

i am curious. were you raised catholic? or a different denomination? or did you get into Christianity a different way.

 

[lunamoth]

Hi Scarlet, I'm happy to see you posting. Hope all is going well with you.

The thing is, I don't feel that the blessings of the Spirit have been taken away from me as I have moved away from Christianity. I think it was Dondi who said in an earlier post that Christians are not the only ones who experience God's Spirit. And Dondi, this quote of yours:

Wherever there is love and compassion there also is the Spirit.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[Dondi]

The thing is, I don't feel that the blessings of the Spirit have been taken away from me as I have moved away from Christianity. I think it was Dondi who said in an earlier post that Christians are not the only ones who experience God's Spirit. And Dondi, this quote of yours:

Quote:
Whatever the case, I don't think God is limited by people's beliefs. Maybe God would deal with us according to how we adhere to what we believe, even if we have it all wrong about Him. Wouldn't God judge us within the dictates of our hearts and not our head?

is fantastic. I couldn't agree more. This is something I've believed for about 14 years (well within the time period when I still considered myself Christian) but have never been able to articulate so beautifully. Thank you.

In case you are still interested, I moved away from Christianity into first Taoism, then later Wicca.

My view on the above quote is in part influenced by a Muslim girl named Farah Ahmedi in her book "The Story of My Life", who seemed to have experienced the mercy and forgiveness of God (Allah) that parallels too closely to the kind of experience I, and others I know in the Christian faith, have experienced, that I cannot ignore the genuineness of it:

"And yet I felt His nearness, too, and I had no trouble confessing my troubles to Him as intimately as I might to a loving friend.....I said, ...'What am I going to do?'....No sooner had I posed the question in my heart than I felt a warmthgrowing and growing from the middle of me, and I knew God was listening to me, that God was nearby, very close indeed, and invisible light, a bodiless friend, a smiling power. I had such a strong and positive feeling about God being there" - The Story of My Life by Farah Ahmedi

This coming from a 12 year old Muslim girl. And she had her prayers answered in such a remarkable way that I cannot help but think God is with her. She exuberated a faith I rarely see, even with Christians, even with me. It actually strengthened my faith in God who is beyond borders. You just have to read this book.

Since then, I have heard of other testamonies from people in other faiths and in NDEs and angelic visits, such that I have had to re-exam just what I believe in when it comes to "salvation". There just has to be a way for people truly seeking God, with whatever light is given them, to find Him if they are seeking with all their heart, regardless of their religious orientation.