Saint Raphael

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This is something I wrote in the can a Christian kill thread and decided to make a thread on it.. This is the story of 3 saints in the Greek Orthodox faith. And then the writings of Saint Raphael after.

Agios (Saint) Raphael and Agios (Saint) Nicolas 2 Greek orthodox Priests in the mid 1400s practising on the Island of Lesvos. Before Raphael’s death he wrote stuff, much of it about how to be a good Christian and following the Christian path. Both these priests were granted saint hood because they started to appear in dreams of to all the people in a village in Lesvos in the 1950s. Yes very mystical and unexplainable! People began to talk as the saints including a 12 year old girl Agia Irene would visit them in the dreams explaining of how they died. It became apparent that in the 1400s the Ottomans invaded the Island of Lesvos and on there rampage made it to the church the 2 priests were preaching and the girl Agia Irene was worshiping with her parents. And they asked the 2 priests to give up there priest hood and join the ottoman army. They refused and were taken into separate rooms to be tortured until they gave in, remarkably they didn't and died a horrific death. And at the same time saint Irene was forced to join the Ottomans but refused to and was burnt to death with great difficulty in a giant clay vase in front of her parents. A journalist and sceptic at the time decided to investigate and using peoples dreams he went to the so called location of where this was suppose to have happened and discovered relics including the writings of saint Raphael, bones of tortured people, clay vase with bones in etc. Of which an amazing smell of flowers came from the bones and unexplainably too heavy for him to pick up. He went temporarily blind and went into communication with the saint who told him he had no faith in the dreams and the people, till eventually he did and came around. Since then a church was built in there honour and they are probably the most healing saints in the whole of the Orthodoxy faith, there are many many reported stories of them and people all over the Greek world and healing of illness.

http://www.serfes.org/writtings/straphael.htm

Writtings of St.Raphael

SPIRITUAL COUNSELS OF ST. RAPHAEL
1.Christ and We
Only where Christ dwells is there blessedness. Where Christ blesses there is heavenly repose. Where Christ turns His benveolent gaze there is inexpressible true joy. Christ, with His unceasing love for us and His great humility, loves us and invisibly reproves us and reminds us through His miracles that there is life in the Kingdom of Heaven.
2. The Path of Christ
The path of Christ is somewhat difficult, but with patience, will, and humility one makes progress... It involves tribulation and suffering, without which it is not possible for one to find the path open for the benefit of his soul.
3. Repentance and Regeneration
When a person is in a state of bondage to sin and has as an obstacle sadness and cannot concentrate, it means that he is without the regeneration of our Savior Jesus Christ and is far from Him.
But when a man "comes to himself" and feels that his soul is far from God and becomes aware of his sinfulness, and with tears of repentance entreats our Heavenly Father to forgive him and bring him back to the heavenly joy of our Christ, then the regeneration of his soul takes place.
4. Care of the soul
When a Christian exercises watchful care, he heals his soul and does not allow it to be lost....Do not let your soul go astray in matter, in the corruptible things of the world. Life has no value if we do not take care of the soul. Therefore, do not let yourselves go astray and lose your soul Read carefully the Gospels, because these were written with the Grace and the glory of God, to be read by the faithful that their life might shine.
On days when a Saint is celebrated, Christians ought to pray more ardently, with contrition and love, and entreat the Saint to intercede with God for the salvation of their soul. The feast day of every Saint is for Christians a serious reminder of the great sufferings which the Saints experienced for the sake of Christ's faith. They were glorified by God and with glory they received a place in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Let us then honor the Saints and invoke their help, in order that they might strengthen us in our prayer. And we may rest assured that our prayer will be listened to by God.
A guileless spirit is one which has no badness within it. Badness is a characteristic of the evil one, who seeks by means of wickedness to divert man from the path of virtue and from God. Consequently, great carefulness and effort are needed in order that there might reign in the soul a guileless and pure spirit.
How much care do people exercise in order to save their soul? What medicines do they use in order to protect it from the microbes of sin which threaten and attact it? And yet, the Lord has indicated the medicines: love, warm prayer, and humility. They must employ all of them, seeking at the same time the help of God, through which alone can the soul be regenerated and be freed from the microbes of sin...Sin must be banished from the soul: greed, rapacity, impatience, improper imagination.
Examine your self and strive to adorn it with love, humility, compassion and hope. Seek the regeneration of your soul, enlightened by the voice of the Gospel and helped by God. With fear and love for the Heavenly Father, proceed to sow the seeds of God's word on good soil. Cultivate the talent given by Christ for the salvation of your soul.
5. We ought to obey God
In order to advance in the path of Christ, one needs besides other basic things, complete obedience to the Commandments of God.
Follow the straight path which has been charted by our Lord Jesus Christ, and do not allow yourselves to be encircled by sin...Today's path which is followed by various societies is directed towards sin. The cause of this is the development of civilization - of wrongly conceived civilization - towards which the various leaders are striving by diverse means to direct mankind, trying to create a new way of life, different from that prescribed by the Lord.
6. Love your fellow men and forgive them
Among your religious duties is that of loving your fellow men and always forgiving them. If you dod this, you will be filled with joy, and with health both of the soul and of the body.
Forgive an pray, in order to live your life serenely. And do not do to others that which you do not want them to do to you, or return the evil which they have done to you.
Good deeds and love for one's neighbor will result in a holy end for everyone who inwardly supplicates: "Save me, my Christ." Through love and prayer he will be saved.
You have and eat; give each day to someone who is poor to eat also.
7. Ask God to forgive you
Always entreat the Creator to forgive you. He knows all the hidden deeds and thoughts which people do not confess, perhaps from shame, from lack of strength to tell the truth.
8. Cultivate patience
Patience is a heavenly gift, a gift from the Heavenly Father...With patience, and love for yur fellow men, you become a victor in life's continual trials.
When there is no patience, all goodness in the soul is quickly suppressed and sin grows.
Patrience adorns the soul with diamonds which are not of the earth but belong to the Jerusalem that is Above.
Patience increases obedience to the Divine words that have been written, are being written, and will be written.
PATIENCE IS LOVE
AND OBEDIENCE.
Exercise patience out of love for your fellow man. Exercise patience in order to benefit your soul. For it you do not take yur soul into consideration, you lose your patience.
PATIENCE INCREASES WHEN
A PERSON TAKES IN ACCOUNT GOD.
Patience must grow and not diminish, because when it diminishes sin increases in the life of man, evil resutls.
Patrience is a sweet word. Patience is a sweet breath. Patience is an invincible weapon. Patience is a priceless adornment of man. Patrience is a blessing of God.
When our Lord Jesus Christ was in His earthly life and taught the crowds, if He did not have patience within Himself what would have happened? He came to earth in order to save the lost sheep and to uplift us through His patience, and then to go up to Golgotha for us who are unworthy and careless.
Patience reigns quietly and fruitfully in the lfie of the man who does not harm or endanger anyone, who is content with little and is obedient to the commandments of the Heavenly Father.
9. Have faith
Have faith that is as unshakeable as a rock, so that nothing frightens you...The person who has deep faith within himself, and fixes his attention on the good path, and seeks to improve the condition of his soul and to adapt his thought to the good is happy... The happiness of man consists in faith in God and in good acts which are done with love.
We cure those who believe in us and come to us with faith.
10. Cultivate humility
STRIVE TO ACQUIRE
DEEP
HUMILITY.
A good Christian love his fellow men, helps the poor, and is very humble.
11. Keep the ordained fasts
The Holy Fast of Forty Days (tessarakoste - "Great Lent") is the greatest fast, one which every Christian must observe without grumbling. A person who possesses bodily health must not protest about the fast; and he is inexcusable if he does not keep it.
During the forty day period of the fast, a Christian ought to attend church services regularly.
A person must also keep the fast of Wednesday and Friday.
During the great fast of the first fifteen days of August, some persons were black clothes, in order to honor the Theotokos. But if this is not accompanied by fasting and by prayer it is in vain.
12. Confess and receive Holy Communion
Confess, and receive Holy Commmunion so long as you practice love towards your fellow men and do for them all the good that lies within your power. This is therapeutic for both the soul and the body.
13. Read religious books
WHAT BOOKS DO YOU READ?
READ RELIGIOUS BOOKS.
In all our undertakings in life we should begin with a read of the Gospel. Christians who want to show obedience to the word of God should read regularly and study carefully, word for wor, the Law of the Gospel, endeavoring to understand it fully, dwelling more on those words which of essential import. Study the Acts of the Apostles.... All the heralds of Christ, that is, the Apostles and the Saints, had wisdom which they acquired through the descent upon them of the Holy Spirit.
Read the Salutations to the Theotokos.
14. Pray
REPENT AND PRAY.
DO NOT NEGLECT
PRAYER.
PRAY
FERVENTLY.
Say these prayers:
"In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us."
"Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit."
"We venerate Thine immaculate icon..."
"The Cross, the guardian of the whole oecumene..."
The Creed and the Lord's Prayer... "O All-Holy Lady Theotokos (the light of my darkened soul, my hope and protection)..."

And whatever other prayer you know. </I>
15. Missionary activity
The compassionate soul loves, helps, consoles, shares the suffering of an afflicted fellow human being. It works for the spreading of the Gospel, motivated by love for the sinner. We ought to feel sorrow within our souls for persons who live far from God.
The stand of the Lord towards Zacchaeus should serve as a lesson for Christians. Through His stand the Lord showed that we ought to embrace sinners with our love and not to avoid them. It shows us that we ought to seek the power of God to bring them to the rengeneration which is effected by our Savior Jesus Christ.
So let us approach sinners with love. And if in the end we do no succeed in bringing them close and fully to the path of God, let us even then not cease praying for them. Perhaps our fervent prayer will be listened to by our compassionate God and He will grant to them the regeneration of their soul. 16. Profitableness of the Christian life
Happy is the Christian who studies and follows the teaching of Christ. He is happy in this temporary life and in the life after death. Yes, he will be happy after death, because the soul does not vanish after death, is not perishable like the body, but continues to live, to exist. Through death, it is simply separated from the perishable body.

Please leave your comments as I like to see what people make about it all. Even skeptics.
 
I like a lot of what St Raphael wrote - it is very good Christian instruction. I am sure he was a wonderful Christian man - that does not mean I think he was right about everything, however.

For instance, I see a contradiction between these two ways of approaching salvation. I believe the former is correct, and that the latter is wrong.

But when a man "comes to himself" and feels that his soul is far from God and becomes aware of his sinfulness, and with tears of repentance entreats our Heavenly Father to forgive him and bring him back to the heavenly joy of our Christ, then the regeneration of his soul takes place.

On days when a Saint is celebrated, Christians ought to pray more ardently, with contrition and love, and entreat the Saint to intercede with God for the salvation of their soul.

The intercession of saints is based on church tradition, not the Holy Scriptures, and therefore is not accepted by evangelical churches.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever
them that are sanctified.

 
all christians are saints.

What makes a Christian? Someone who is christened? What makes a Saint? Verification through miracles? Christianity is very much a mystical religion and Jesus Christ was a mystic, his relationship to God was probably the closest any person on earth got to. He is who bridged us to God. Only through him and his love and is a hard and constant struggle to gain saint hood.
 
kenod said:
For instance, I see a contradiction between these two ways of approaching salvation. I believe the former is correct, and that the latter is wrong.

Personally i see no contradiction. Are you saying there is only one way to salvation? Jesus said love your enemies yet we still no of Christian saints that killed. Now that is a contradiction.
 
Postmaster said:
What makes a Christian? Someone who is christened? What makes a Saint? Verification through miracles? Christianity is very much a mystical religion and Jesus Christ was a mystic, his relationship to God was probably the closest any person on earth got to. He is who bridged us to God. Only through him and his love and is a hard and constant struggle to gain saint hood.
a christian is a someone that has a personal relationship with god thru jesus christ. a christian is someone that believes that god sent his son to die for our sins, and we pray for forgiveness thru the resurrection of the son. a christian is someone who turns their life over to christ, putting god first in all things, and has faith in god in all things, and gives glory to god in all things. all these things make one a christian, a saint, a child of god. one should not exhalt oneself into sainthood for glory or because of men, because if jesus christ, the son of god is your king and saviour, and you are his humble servant, then you are already a saint thru christ.
 
kenod said:
I like a lot of what St Raphael wrote - it is very good Christian instruction. I am sure he was a wonderful Christian man - that does not mean I think he was right about everything, however.

For instance, I see a contradiction between these two ways of approaching salvation. I believe the former is correct, and that the latter is wrong.





The intercession of saints is based on church tradition, not the Holy Scriptures, and therefore is not accepted by evangelical churches.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus



Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever
them that are sanctified.




If you are referring to Catholic or Anglican practices, I'm afraid you missed the boat.

Worship is to and for GOD ALONE. Honoring saints is different. Prayer is talking, and one can only "talk" to the living. Since Saints are alive with Christ, there is no problem "talking" with them.

We praise, repent, do pennance, petition to God. We talk to the saints. We don't worship saints, we don't ask Saints to give us a miracle (though by Jesus' own words we would do even greater miracles then He). But we do ask consideration for intercession, if it is God's will.

I suppose it is difficult to consider when there is so much crap out there by people (not here at CR), who have no idea what it is to be Catholic (English, Roman, or Orthodox), yet they think they have the Catholics pegged, and insist on flooding literature with their same conclusions.

Things to consider, next time someone complains to you about "idolitary Catholics"...;)

v/r

Q

Oh, forgot to give you evidence of Saints "legally" interceding on our behalf!

"In Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding."
 
Nice one Quahom, you have a very good, valid, correct and truthfull point..
 
kenod said:
What is your definition of "salvation"?

Well its means to be saved from sin and evil and there influences. I've always understood that you need a combination of equally inner searching and external help. Salvation can not come from yourself alone? You have to listen to learn.
 
this seems too much of repackaged, already pure, and existing christian doctrine into classical greco-roman reverance of female divinity in reference to Theotokos. there is no need for cultural influences to intertwine with christianity, because then it takes a life of its own.
 
The very New Testament that was wrote by Greco-Romans? Most the Apostals were of Greek origin anyway.. Saint John went back home to write the apocalyptic prophecy in Patmos, was there a couple of weeks ago :)! The influence was there from the beginning, (if there is). Maybe Greek Jews had less to loose if they followed Jesus, and could of coruse spread the word in Europe.
 
Quahom1 said:
"In Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." ."

Would you post a copy of Rev 5:8 from the Bible you use, and explain who the "saints" are in this verse?

btw, I married a Catholic ... believe it or not, she was a Sister of Mercy :eek:
 
Postmaster said:
Well its means to be saved from sin and evil and there influences. I've always understood that you need a combination of equally inner searching and external help. Salvation can not come from yourself alone? You have to listen to learn.

So salvation for you is a work in progress, not a spiritual event?

Is "salvation" the same as being "born again" (John 3)
 
kenod said:
Would you post a copy of Rev 5:8 from the Bible you use, and explain who the "saints" are in this verse?

btw, I married a Catholic ... believe it or not, she was a Sister of Mercy :eek:

;) Santcified even in marriage huh? Double blessing for you!

Rev 5: 8 "Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints..."

Here is how pre-tribulation scholar Arnold Furchtenbaum explains it:


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The identity of these twenty-four elders has been much debated. Some take it to refer to celestial beings, while others take it to refer to and represent the church. While the text does not clearly state as to what these twenty-four elders refer, there are clues in the text by which their identity can be deduced. First, these elders are clothed with white garments which throughout the Revelation are symbols of salvation. Celestial beings before the throne of God do not need salvation for they were not lost to begin with. But these elders were at one time lost and at some point received salvation as is seen by their wearing of the white garments.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The second clue is the fact that they are wearing crowns. These crowns are not diadem crowns worn by those who are royal by nature, which would have been the case had these been celestial beings. These crowns are the stephanos crowns, the crowns of an overcomer; the type of crown given as rewards to the members of the church at the Judgment Seat of Christ.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"A third clue lies in their very title of elders. Nowhere else in Scripture is this term used to describe celestial or angelic beings. This term is used of humans in positions of authority either in the synagogue or church.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Hence, from these three clues, the twenty-four elders must represent the church saints."[/FONT]

Hope this helps.

v/r

Q

 
kenod said:
So salvation for you is a work in progress, not a spiritual event?

Is "salvation" the same as being "born again" (John 3)

Yes, salvation is the same as being born again into Christ. However, it is also noted that salvation's rewards can be lost, hence why I believe Post is stating that it is a work in progress. Once saved, one can't just sit on their laurels (or lack of) and expect the riches of heaven to be placed at their feet.

Though to be saved is an act of Grace, building the rewards in heaven takes work. The parable of the "Good and faithful servant" and "Good steward of the Master's wealth", tend to bear that out.

v/r

Q
 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Hence, from these three clues, the twenty-four elders must represent the church saints."[/FONT]
[/FONT]


I think the number 24 must be significant ... the most logical conclusion is that it represents the 12 OT patriarchs, and the 12 apostles from the NT ... thus symbolically representing all believers. And who are the “living creatures” … can you pray to them too?

Where did the church get the authority to add to the number 24?
Where did it get the authority to decide the criteria for a "saint"?
Where did it get the authority to tell us to talk to people who have died? (only one man in the Bible did that and he used a witch. 1 Sam 28).
 
kenod said:
I think the number 24 must be significant ... the most logical conclusion is that it represents the 12 OT patriarchs, and the 12 apostles from the NT ... thus symbolically representing all believers. And who are the “living creatures” … can you pray to them too?

Where did the church get the authority to add to the number 24?

The older term for saint is martyr, meaning witness, or more specifically, witness for God. However, as the word martyr took on more and more the meaning of "one who died for the Faith," the term saint, meaning holy, became more common to describe the whole of Christian witnesses, both martyrs and confessors. The Catholic Church recognizes that it does not, in fact, make anyone a saint. Rather, it recognizes a saint.


Where did it get the authority to decide the criteria for a "saint"?

A saint is a term used to refer to someone who is a holy person. The term comes from the New Testament, where the Greek word "hagios" ("holy" or "saint") is used to refer to those in the church. This was translated by St. Jerome in the Latin Vulgate as "sanctus," which also means "holy." Over the years it has grown to be used and accepted in other Christian, religious, and even secular contexts, to refer to those who are considered to be exceptionally virtuous or glorified in heaven. Hence a "saint" (cont. with sinner) is a (usually deceased) person whose life is regarded by a community as a good example, and their life story is remembered for sake of inspiring others. It is important to note that Saints are not "worshipped" according to strict Christian terminology. Worship is reserved for God alone, whereas Saints are venerated (see veneration), respected, and viewed as role models.

Where did it get the authority to tell us to talk to people who have died? (only one man in the Bible did that and he used a witch. 1 Sam 28).

Where did you get the authority to pray for your family? Same exact place that we all can ask the saints to pray for us (since they are not dead but alive in Christ, unless of course you do not believe they are alive, then you shouldn't pray to the "dead saints")...


Doesn’t it say as clear as day here, that no one can get in-between man and God, and by praying to saints, are Catholics violating what it so clearly teaches here? Well, in the first place commons sense tells us that if the Catholic position violates it, so does the Protestant practice of praying for others. After all, Protestants as much as Catholics always intervene by praying not only for themselves, but other people, all the time. When one asks them to pray for them, Do they say to one another “How dare you pray for one another all, there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ!!!” No, Protestants as well as Catholics intercede for others all the time, and it is especially urged in the Bible. When Catholics pray to Saints, they are only asking them to pray for them. Even the immediate context of 1 Timothy 2 shows the need for Christians to pray for others, exactly as Catholicism teaches. Let us look at the immediately preceding verses of 1 Tim. 2:

1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

So in the immediate context Paul urges people to pray for others. It is good and pleasing to God that people intercede on the behalf of others. So obviously this text does not mean people should not be able to intercede for others. When we pray to Saints, we are only asking them to pray for us. Next, can Saints pray for us in heaven? What does the bible say?

Are there any witnesses in heaven of us? Paul tells us:

Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

Do we come only to God or do we also come to the assembly of Saints in heaven as well?

Hebrews 12:22 But YE ARE COME UNTO mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
Paul says yes.


Dude, I ask for saints to pray for me, daily, and my family, and people at CR, and at work...

I'm not praying to a stone. I'm thinking of someone who went before me and did great things in God's grace. I'm asking them to ask God not to forget me.

v/r

Q
 
praying for somebody shows an act of love towards man, but praying to somebody shows that person has authority to answer them or to intercede on a spiritual level.

The truth is Jesus christ is our only intercessor,
and saints all all those that are born again in faith thru jesus christ.
 
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