S
Silas
Guest
You are aware that those translations were written to fit a certain mold, right? This is so simply to just a child like understanding. If Jesus was simply saying that he existed before Abraham as an angel, as you opt for, the Jews wouldnt have wanted to Kill them. It is obvious that they understood Him to mean that He was claiming to be God. It wasnt even the first time. Do you agree with the Pharisees?
Dor
Bible Thumper
Yes Mee.
Arianism has been around since before the 4th century. So it is not hard to find versions from there to know that change things to fit what they believe.
Yes JW's fall in the same category cause they came from same place.
Arianism has been around since before the 4th century. So it is not hard to find versions from there to know that change things to fit what they believe.
Yes JW's fall in the same category cause they came from same place.
John 1:1 says
en arch hn o logoV, kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon, kai qeoV hn o logoV.
The first god is with a The, that becomes "The God", while the second god is simply a god.
So it becomes somethig like "the word was with The God , & the word was god/divine", or ,"the word was with The God, & god was the word .
And secondly, its John who is saying this, not Jesus.
en arch hn o logoV, kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon, kai qeoV hn o logoV.
The first god is with a The, that becomes "The God", while the second god is simply a god.
So it becomes somethig like "the word was with The God , & the word was god/divine", or ,"the word was with The God, & god was the word .
And secondly, its John who is saying this, not Jesus.
Dor
Bible Thumper
so are saying you are a polysamist and thats ok cause Jesus is a god just not God. Definatly not biblical.
BlaznFattyz
Well-Known Member
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the bible is quiet clear that jesus was making himself out to be god. sadly, people look for god in the wrong places, not because god does not want to be found, but because people want to fit god in a box, yet he is not there. but if we seek god with all our hearts; not religion, not philosophies, not culture, but seek god; then we will find his love, salvation, and grace which god has proclaimed thru his son who is the way, the truth, and the life. god's love is manifested in jesus christ, god's salvation is manifested in jesus christ, and god's grace is manifested in jesus christ. yet jesus was not born in a palace, he was born in a manger, he did not sit on a throne of gold in the temple, he was out in the streets with sinners with nowhere to rest his head, he did not sit on a war horse in battle armor, he sat on a donkey, he did not come with a sword of metal to defeat enemies, he came with a sword of fire to pierce the heart and soul. because he does not fit the preconceived notion of what some people would like, he is not found, because people have a hardened heart, or want to be considered good enough without the need of a saviour, or arrogance thru their own philosophies, or impersonal and detached rituals of religion, these things stop god from working in one's life and stops us from finding jesus christ. but the bible is quiet clear that the heart of man is wicked, and we all fall short of the glory of god, and we are all sinners, and that is why the word which was with god, and was god, came as man like us, so he could die for our sins, and return back to glory with the father so we might have eternal life in heaven through the son.
There is more than one God? If Jesus is a God and Jehovah is a God.. that means that JW's are saying that Jesus is equal to Jehovah? mee, when are you going to see the flaw in that mistranslation? When are you going to realize that a 1808 translation of the original text is highly questionable.. that was written 2000 years ago and the greek is the same then as it is now.. and the greek scholars of today say that it is Word was God. not A god.
JW's the world wide are going to be in for a big disappointment when they stand in front of the Lord and realize that everything they believed was a lie.
For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son.. That whosoever believes in Him (the Son) would not perish but have everlasting life.
If God had a son He would be God..
If a man had a son it would be a man
ifa monkey had a son it would be a monkey
if a dog had a son it would be a dog..
If God had a unique son.. none like Him.. begotten by God.. it would be God.
Doesnt take a Phd to figure it out
JW's the world wide are going to be in for a big disappointment when they stand in front of the Lord and realize that everything they believed was a lie.
For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son.. That whosoever believes in Him (the Son) would not perish but have everlasting life.
If God had a son He would be God..
If a man had a son it would be a man
ifa monkey had a son it would be a monkey
if a dog had a son it would be a dog..
If God had a unique son.. none like Him.. begotten by God.. it would be God.
Doesnt take a Phd to figure it out
S
Silas
Guest
I agree with you and want to add on something you said about seeking God. You're so right, if we seek God with all our heart, we will find Him. That is a promise of Jesus and we know that He does not lie. I dont care how staunch a person is in their belief, we all know the truth intrinsically. God is not lost nor is he hiding. Anyone who wills to know Him can know Him. The sad and plain truth is that "people supress the truth in unrighteousness." I used to be so angry and confused as to why God would send people to hell. I thought it was so unfair of Him to allow a person to be born knowing that they wouldnt choose Him and then punish them forever in Hell. I used to feel sorry for people (and I still do at times), but after growing a bit in grace, I see that it is really God who is the loving one. I'm all for His will being done now. Frank Turek put it this way:
"One beauty of God's creation is this: if you're not willing to accept Christianity, then you're free to reject it. This freedom to make choices--even the freedom to reject truth--is what makes us moral creatures and enables each of us to choose our ultimate destiny. This really hits at the heart of why we exist at all, and why God might not be as overt in revealing himself to us as some would like. For if the Bible is true, then God has provided each of us with the opportunity to make an eternal choice to either accept him or reject him. And in order to ensure that our choice is truly free, he puts us in an environment that is filled with evidence of his existence, but without his direct presence--a presence so powerful that it could overwhelm our freedom and thus negate our ability to reject him. In other words, God has provided enough evidence in this life to convince anyone willing to believe, yet he has also left some ambiguity so as not to compel the unwilling. In this way, God gives us the opportunity either to love him or to reject him without violating our freedom. In fact, the purpose of this life is to make that choice freely and without coercion. For love, by definition, must be freely given. It cannot be coerced."
Again, the truth is "people 'choose' lie over truth. They dont want God." My question is this: Why? Why will anyone choose to deny the epitomy of love?
M
mee
Guest
notice it says AND so we need to know Jehovah the true God, AND Jesus christ,also notice there is no mention of the holy spirit as a third one to know. yes i am very familiar with how Jesus fulllfilled bible prophecies back then, and i am also very familiar with how Jesus fullfills bible prophecy and chronology in these last days , especially since 1914 .and both times the ones who claim to represent the true God do not recognize him at all. back then the religious leaders did not recognize Jesus as Gods son , and now in this time of the end christendom do not recognize that Jesus fullfills bible prophecies regarding his kingship in the heavenly kingdom goverment . and look what happened to unfaithful Jerusalem in 70C.E because of their attitude to Jesus , so it will be the same in this time of the end when the great day of Jehovah arrives , those who do not recognize Jesus kingship inline with bible prophecy and chronology and also dont recognize those who represent Jesus, will have the same outcome as the religious leaders in Jesus day . submitting to Jesus kingship and his heavenly kingdom goverment is the thing to do , but they do not want it , and it is false religious leaders who are the main ones to do this and any who listen to false religious leaders will have to go down with them. that is why revelation tells Gods people to GET OUT OF HER REVELATION 18;4 then they will not suffer the same outcome as false religion .it is a fact that false religion has taken on other worship ,such as the trinity. but this teaching is not what Jesus taught .even changing Gods word to fit there beliefs ,many things have happened down through the centuries and many people have got to believing the lies
M
mee
Guest
so they really were not listening to Jesus at all were they? John 10;36
do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?
M
mee
Guest
yes as you say God gave his ONLY- BEGOTTEN SON this one was the only one created by Jehovah alone .everything else was created through Jesus , this only -begotten son certainly was unique ,he is the only one created by Jehovah alone . he is the first -born of creation.For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son.. That whosoever believes in Him (the Son) would not perish but have everlasting life.
If God had a son He would be God..
If a man had a son it would be a man
If God had a unique son.. none like Him.. begotten by God.. it would be God.
Doesnt take a Phd to figure it out
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation colossians1;15.................... when you say that a man has a son , it does not make that son his father ,but he is like his father. so in the same way Jesus was like God.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
M
mee
Guest
Because they do not believe in the Trinity dogma, it has been said of Jehovah’s Witnesses that they practice "a form of Arianism." But the fact that they are not Trinitarians does not make them Arians. In one of the few writings of Arius that has survived, he claims that God is beyond comprehension, even for the Son. In line with this, historian H. M. Gwatkin states in his book The Arian Controversy: "The God of Arius is an unknown God, whose being is hidden in eternal mystery. No creature can reveal him, and he cannot reveal himself." Jehovah’s Witnesses worship neither the "incomprehensible" God of the Trinitarians nor the "unknown God" of Arius. They say, with the apostle Paul: "There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are."—1 Corinthians 8:6.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Sorry I had to correct your misquoting of scripture.. When a man has a son he IS his father down to very cells in his body.. He may look different but the very element of him is the same.
S
Silas
Guest
mee
notice it says AND so we need to know Jehovah the true God, AND Jesus christ,also notice there is no mention of the holy spirit as a third one to know.
OK, but thats not the point. Jesus is mentioned with the Father as the "joint source of eternal life."
yes i am very familiar with how Jesus fulllfilled bible prophecies back then, and i am also very familiar with how Jesus fullfills bible prophecy and chronology in these last days , especially since 1914 .
Where in the Bible does it say anything about 1914?
it is a fact that false religion has taken on other worship ,such as the trinity.
If the Bible does not teach a triune God, how do you understand the following scriptures:
"Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven." - Gen 19:24
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me...‘" Isa 44:6
Why is there pluarality, Mee?
but this teaching is not what Jesus taught.
If Jesus didnt teach a Triune God, then He is a liar for claiming to be God both by His words and what He did.
even changing Gods word to fit there beliefs ,many things have happened down through the centuries and many people have got to believing the lies.
Is there a chance that the JWs could actually be a cult with many false prophecies and who teach the heresies of Arius?
notice it says AND so we need to know Jehovah the true God, AND Jesus christ,also notice there is no mention of the holy spirit as a third one to know.
OK, but thats not the point. Jesus is mentioned with the Father as the "joint source of eternal life."
yes i am very familiar with how Jesus fulllfilled bible prophecies back then, and i am also very familiar with how Jesus fullfills bible prophecy and chronology in these last days , especially since 1914 .
Where in the Bible does it say anything about 1914?
it is a fact that false religion has taken on other worship ,such as the trinity.
If the Bible does not teach a triune God, how do you understand the following scriptures:
"Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven." - Gen 19:24
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me...‘" Isa 44:6
Why is there pluarality, Mee?
but this teaching is not what Jesus taught.
If Jesus didnt teach a Triune God, then He is a liar for claiming to be God both by His words and what He did.
even changing Gods word to fit there beliefs ,many things have happened down through the centuries and many people have got to believing the lies.
Is there a chance that the JWs could actually be a cult with many false prophecies and who teach the heresies of Arius?
S
Silas
Guest
Where's the contradiction, Mee? Jesus IS the Son of God! God is truine; not three Gods making up one, but ONE God in essence who has three seperate persons. Note again Isa 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me...‘"
If you could read that verse and see the pluarity of God and still choice to deny it to serve an idol and false religion and cult, you would prove to make yourself an enemy of God for supressing the truth in unrightouesness.
M
mee
Guest
Jesus Christ is shown to be "the firstborn of all creation" as well as "the firstborn from the dead"—not merely most distinguished in relation to those created or those resurrected but the first one actually created and the first raised from the dead to endless life. (Col 1:15, 18; Re 1:5; 3:14)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; col 1;15
"And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God revelation 3;14
(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.
(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
(John 1:14) So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth............ the bible always harmonizes when it is translated in the right way .
Jesus was called God’s "only-begotten Son" because Jehovah created him directly. (John 3:16) As "the firstborn of all creation," Jesus was then used by God to create all other things. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14) John 1:1 says that "the Word" (Jesus in his prehuman existence) was with God "in the beginning." So the Word was with Jehovah when "the heavens and the earth" were created. God was addressing the Word when He said: "Let us make man in our image." (Genesis 1:1, 26) Likewise, the Word must have been God’s beloved "master worker," described at Proverbs 8:22-31 as wisdom personified, laboring at Jehovah’s side in the making of all things. After Jehovah brought him into existence, the Word spent ages with God in heaven before becoming a man on earth.
No wonder Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus "the image of the invisible God"! Through untold years of close association, the obedient Son came to be just like his Father, Jehovah. This is another reason why Jesus is the key to the life-giving knowledge of God. Everything Jesus did while on earth is exactly what Jehovah would have done. Hence, getting to know Jesus also means increasing our knowledge of Jehovah. (John 8:28; 14:8-10) Clearly, then, it is vital to learn more about Jesus Christ................. talking about being like someone, but not actually being that person , reminds me of the name michael it means (Mi´cha·el) [Who Is Like God?].
M
mee
Guest
yes we need to take in knowledge about Jehovah and Jesus just as the verse in John 17;3 says ......very true