I love Islam

lunamoth said:
Hi Muslimwoman,

Yes, much of the Baha'i teachings can be found online at Baha'i Faith and the Baha'is also sponser a wonderful program called Ocean which can be downloaded from this link: Ocean.

Downloading Ocean is very worthwhile as they not only have all the Baha'i Writings in a searchable format, but also the Bible, the Quran, and the scriptures from many other religions.

As for why I left the Baha'i Faith, it would be rather difficult to explain fully to someone not familiar with the Baha'i Faith, but for a number of reasons I came to doubt Baha'u'llah's claim to be Christ returned. I loved being a Baha'i for many reasons and I love my Baha'i friends, and I especially love the Baha'i message of peace between different peoples and religions.

And you as well. :)

luna
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Thank you for your honest reply.

Not sure I can thank you for the links because I probably won't sleep for a week now :D No really thankyou, it is always a joy to see life from someone else's perspective.

Salaam
 
I couldn't help eavesdropping in on your conversation and offering a post...normally I wouldn't intrude on an Islamic board...

Muslimwoman asked earlier:

I was trying to ask if Baha'i followers believe in all the Books or follow all the Books. I can understand belief in all the Books (ie they were all sent/inspired by G-d to guide the followers of each Book) but I would be confused if the Baha'i followers 'follow' all the Books. Example, if you read the Quran alcohol is haraam (forbidden) but in the Bible it is not haraam. So how could anyone know which part of which Book to follow? Am I making myself clearer? And if they do not follow all the Books then what do they follow?

My repsonse:

Baha'is do accept the laws that were revealed through Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book) and this book has most of the ordinances we Baha'is follow... such as obligatory prayers, abstaining from alcohol, marriage, sanctions.

Many of these laws abrogate the ordinances of previous dispensations suchas the Babi dispensation and Islamic laws as well...

We Baha'is regard previous religions as being from one Divine Source and respect the Holy Books of them. The Bible is accepetd as inspired and the Qur'an is regarding as an authenticate respository of the Divine Revelation.

We are unsure however about the authenticity of scriptures of Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hinduism...that is, we think maybe the origianl teachings have been lost.

You will find references to the Qur'an, the Bible and some Hadiths in Baha'i Writings but generally we are not guided by Hadiths. "Ocean" is an excelllent source of information.

- Art

:)




 
arthra said:
I couldn't help eavesdropping in on your conversation and offering a post...normally I wouldn't intrude on an Islamic board...

Muslimwoman asked earlier:

I was trying to ask if Baha'i followers believe in all the Books or follow all the Books. I can understand belief in all the Books (ie they were all sent/inspired by G-d to guide the followers of each Book) but I would be confused if the Baha'i followers 'follow' all the Books. Example, if you read the Quran alcohol is haraam (forbidden) but in the Bible it is not haraam. So how could anyone know which part of which Book to follow? Am I making myself clearer? And if they do not follow all the Books then what do they follow?

My repsonse:

Baha'is do accept the laws that were revealed through Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book) and this book has most of the ordinances we Baha'is follow... such as obligatory prayers, abstaining from alcohol, marriage, sanctions.

Many of these laws abrogate the ordinances of previous dispensations suchas the Babi dispensation and Islamic laws as well...

We Baha'is regard previous religions as being from one Divine Source and respect the Holy Books of them. The Bible is accepetd as inspired and the Qur'an is regarding as an authenticate respository of the Divine Revelation.

We are unsure however about the authenticity of scriptures of Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hinduism...that is, we think maybe the origianl teachings have been lost.

You will find references to the Qur'an, the Bible and some Hadiths in Baha'i Writings but generally we are not guided by Hadiths. "Ocean" is an excelllent source of information.

- Art

:)
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As salaam aleykum Art

Thankyou for your post, it was most informative and helped me to understand.

I am curious and a little worried as to why you say you wouldnt normally intrude on an Islamic board. Why? Surely we all join a comparative religion forum so we can exchange ideas, teachings, etc. How can we learn and accept if we don't communicate. Are we (Muslims) so hard to talk to or as I am a new member have I misunderstood the purpose of the different boards?

I hope you will free to communicate with me whenever you want about any subject you want.

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman said:
As salaam aleykum Art

Thankyou for your post, it was most informative and helped me to understand.

I am curious and a little worried as to why you say you wouldnt normally intrude on an Islamic board. Why? Surely we all join a comparative religion forum so we can exchange ideas, teachings, etc. How can we learn and accept if we don't communicate. Are we (Muslims) so hard to talk to or as I am a new member have I misunderstood the purpose of the different boards?

I hope you will free to communicate with me whenever you want about any subject you want.

Salaam
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Well the issue has been one on this Comparative Religion Forum where some have been very condecsending toward other religions and attacked them and a few Muslims and Christians have done this on our Baha'i Faith board. So I wanted to be sure that no one misunderstood my motives by posting here.

But you are also most welcome to post any queries on the Baha'i Faith board at CR as well!

- Art

:)
 
arthra said:
Well the issue has been one on this Comparative Religion Forum where some have been very condecsending toward other religions and attacked them and a few Muslims and Christians have done this on our Baha'i Faith board. So I wanted to be sure that no one misunderstood my motives by posting here.

But you are also most welcome to post any queries on the Baha'i Faith board at CR as well!

- Art

:)
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As salaam aleykum Art

Thankyou, I shall check out the Baha'i board tomorrow (getting too late now), there is much I want to learn from you.

Please remember that some brothers and sisters on these boards are very young and I think we are all more 'emotional' about such subjects when we are young. Age tends to teach us patience in all things including discussion, that is not to insult the intelligence of younger people, I just remember how 'emotional' I felt about things when I was young and how easily I felt insulted. As far as I am concerned, even as a new member, you are welcome here anytime.

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman said:
I was trying to ask if Baha'i followers believe in all the Books or follow all the Books.
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Are you denoting a difference between believe and follow? I find that it is fairly firm in Islam that a person who believes will also follow. That does hilite the point that there is more than one book for a follower of the Qur'an to believe and follow.
 
cyberpi said:
Are you denoting a difference between believe and follow? I find that it is fairly firm in Islam that a person who believes will also follow. That does hilite the point that there is more than one book for a follower of the Qur'an to believe and follow.
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For some reason I just can't put this question in the right words. Perhaps it's because I can't get my head around the idea that someone could bellieve that there is onlly one G-d and it is a sin to associate partners with Him, whilst also believing that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d. Also that it's ok to drink wine and eat pork but it is also forbidden to eat pork and drink wine. Sorry i just don't get it.
 
Muslimwoman said:
For some reason I just can't put this question in the right words. Perhaps it's because I can't get my head around the idea that someone could bellieve that there is onlly one G-d and it is a sin to associate partners with Him, whilst also believing that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d. Also that it's ok to drink wine and eat pork but it is also forbidden to eat pork and drink wine. Sorry i just don't get it.
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Reminds me of the priest who found the ancient translation and said...."It says CELEBRATE, not celibate!"

The dance regarding the boards is a tricky one. One may not be able to completely answer on the Islam board as their response may be considered disrespectful by some. In the comparative studies or belief and spirituality section, one may discuss more openly but saying I am right and you are wrong is frowned upon over there...

So on the Islam board the Quran rules, in Christianity the Bible, Judaism the Torah...etc. We are open to discuss, but not pull the rug out from under anyone...does that make sense?

BTW, your comments, concerns and informative nature are thoroughly appreciated!
 
Muslimwoman said:
For some reason I just can't put this question in the right words. Perhaps it's because I can't get my head around the idea that someone could bellieve that there is onlly one G-d and it is a sin to associate partners with Him, whilst also believing that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d. Also that it's ok to drink wine and eat pork but it is also forbidden to eat pork and drink wine. Sorry i just don't get it.
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I think that all of these things are true.

There is only one G-d. Jesus (pbuh) is His son as we are His sons and daughters. It's not a good thing to drink wine or eat pork, but you would to save your life, knowing that G-d made both. It is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean.
 
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Muslimwoman said:
For some reason I just can't put this question in the right words. Perhaps it's because I can't get my head around the idea that someone could bellieve that there is onlly one G-d and it is a sin to associate partners with Him, whilst also believing that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d. Also that it's ok to drink wine and eat pork but it is also forbidden to eat pork and drink wine. Sorry i just don't get it.
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Well, I prostrate to Allah (swt) at a mosque and I attend and take communion at church so I do find myself unpopular on both sides of an alleged fence. Surely I will someday seek out a synagogue and exchange there too when I get the time. So, I am opposed by those who in their hearts desire isolation between people's beliefs and religions. I wish that every alleged Christian would read and learn the Qur'an since many think they are being Loving and polite but I find are instead remaining apathetic and ignorant. I do notice that it is important that people share in person too. Anyhow, I seek God's judgment and I am not afraid to share and judge with what I learn.

On the issues of 'the' Son of God, forbidden pork, the sin within wine, and associating partners with Allah (swt)... those are good common subjects. I've been there a number of times. I will join in when I have the time or see guidance to do so, but for about 3-4 weeks I will be fading out and then after I hope that you are still here to discuss them.

Maybe in defense of my words and instead of posting letter snippets from Paul in the Islam forum, how about a Qur'an verse or two for those who might be following the Gospel and/or Qur'an?

5:47
Yusufali: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

The word 'judge' is a very confused word in Christianity. In 5:46 there is a pattern that the Gospel confirmed that which was before it.... and that continues with the Qur'an in a verse like 10:37.

5:46
Yusufali: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.


10:37
Yusufali: This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
Pickthal: And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.
Shakir: And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.

Yet, in a verse like 5:68 we see that sticking with just the Gospel is wrong.

5:68
Yusufali: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.
Pickthal: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
Shakir: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

So my point is made by the Qur'an. No guidance until. Here is another verse to read closely regarding the believed books:

9:111
Yusufali: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Clarification of the religion I follow?


2:135
Yusufali: They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
Pickthal: And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.
Shakir: And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.


3:67
Yusufali: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
Pickthal: Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Shakir: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.


2:148
Yusufali: To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) Towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, Allah will bring you Together. For Allah Hath power over all things.
Pickthal: And each one hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works. Wheresoever ye may be, Allah will bring you all together. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
Shakir: And every one has a direction to which he should turn, therefore hasten to (do) good works; wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.
 
cyberpi said:
Well, I prostrate to Allah (swt) at a mosque and I attend and take communion at church so I do find myself unpopular on both sides of an alleged fence. Surely I will someday seek out a synagogue and exchange there too when I get the time. So, I am opposed by those who in their hearts desire isolation between people's beliefs and religions. I wish that every alleged Christian would read and learn the Qur'an since many think they are being Loving and polite but I find are instead remaining apathetic and ignorant. I do notice that it is important that people share in person too. Anyhow, I seek God's judgment and I am not afraid to share and judge with what I learn.

On the issues of 'the' Son of God, forbidden pork, the sin within wine, and associating partners with Allah (swt)... those are good common subjects. I've been there a number of times. I will join in when I have the time or see guidance to do so, but for about 3-4 weeks I will be fading out and then after I hope that you are still here to discuss them.

Maybe in defense of my words and instead of posting letter snippets from Paul in the Islam forum, how about a Qur'an verse or two for those who might be following the Gospel and/or Qur'an?
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as salaam aleykum

Wow now that is what I call coexistence - not sure it was intended to mean all in the same person though. :D

I do not desire isolation, quite the opposite, I could quote the Quran and hadith of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) all day in support of religious coexistence.

I do hope when you return you will remember this conversation because I truly wish to understand how someone could accept something as forbidden and allowed at the same time. I am not judging it, I simply don't understand it.

I hope you will be well while you are aware. I look forward to further discussions with you on your return.

Salaam
 
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