As a Christian what are your thoughts?

[Saltmeister]

.. blessed are the poor, the weak, the sick, for they will be open to the message... doesn't sounds like those involved choose to be christians because they want to let Jesus in... no... they want to be healed, they want their prayers answered, they are looking for strength... but instead of giving the money, or the medicine, we instead give them doctrines which tie them up in knots and make life even harder than it was when they started...

hardly seems like good news, to me...

One of the most important things in life: your innocence and spontaneity. Be innocent and be yourself. Don't be a tool, an instrument to be used. Don't be enslaved by dogma and semantics. Be true. Be a real person. Speak your mind. Be natural.

Be no slave of indoctrination. Be no gear, wheel or driving belt for the clockwork. No lamb led to the slaughter . . .

Keep your eyes open so you can see and not be blind.

 

[bob x]

But, at the same time you also cannot expect someone to be okay with your lifestyle...

Whoa. It's not my "lifestyle", it's my LIFE. It is my very heart and soul that you hate.

While in Christianity we are taught to condemn the sin, we shouldn't condemn the person, and that's a mistake many make.

What you are condemning IS me.

But, if you treat Christians with contempt, and Christianity with contempt solely because of this single conflict...

Solely because Christians regard me with contempt? What you give is what you get. You have chosen to be my enemies, although I did nothing to you.

 

[madeinrussia89]

Whoa. It's not my "lifestyle", it's my LIFE. It is my very heart and soul that you hate.

How can a sexual orientation be your ENTIRE life? That's like saying heterosexuality is my life, but that's ridiculous. Your life doesn't revolve around homosexuality and my life doesn't revolve around heterosexuality.

Is your heart filled with nothing but homosexuality? I don't think so.

What you are condemning IS me.

I'm not condemning YOU, I'm condemning your possible ACTIONS (if you engage in them, which you have eluded to in the past).

Solely because Christians regard me with contempt? What you give is what you get. You have chosen to be my enemies, although I did nothing to you.

Regard you or regard homosexuality activity with contempt? There is a difference, you are not your orientation, your orientation is not the essence of your being.

You have chosen to make Christians your enemies by condemning them for not accepting homosexual actions. That doesn't mean they can't like YOU, they just aren't going to agree with those kinds of actions.

What else do you expect? The Christian Church isn't going to change the Logos (which they can't do anyway) just because someone only likes/prefers only homosexual activity and won't admit/doesn't believe it's a sin.

 

[bob x]

"How can a sexual orientation be your ENTIRE life? "
It is the beauty that I see, and the love that I feel in my heart. It is not my ENTIRE life, no, but I cannot just cut my heart out. That would no longer be "me".

"That's like saying heterosexuality is my life, but that's ridiculous."
If I tell you, "I despise the way you care about your husband and children, and will do everything in my power to make it difficult for you to tend to their needs-- but we can still be friends, right?" how would you respond?

"I'm not condemning YOU, I'm condemning your possible ACTIONS (if you engage in them, which you have eluded to in the past). "
My life has been completely celibate in most years out of the past twenty-odd. I hope you are happy to hear that, because that is certainly a misery for me.

"That doesn't mean they can't like YOU, they just aren't going to agree with those kinds of actions"
If you cannot be happy for me when I feel joy, but only "like" me when I am miserable, what kind of a friend are you?

"The Christian Church isn't going to change the Logos "
I thought you believed that Jesus was the Logos. Instead you worship a dead book.

 

[madeinrussia89]

If I tell you, "I despise the way you care about your husband and children, and will do everything in my power to make it difficult for you to tend to their needs-- but we can still be friends, right?" how would you respond?

Caring about someone, the act of caring about someone's welfare - whether they live or die, is never wrong. And it's just fantastic how you assume every christian wants to stop your insurance coverage from going to your partner or vice versa, like we're all financial vampires trying to suck the house out from under you. Not true, not true at all.

"I'm not condemning YOU, I'm condemning your possible ACTIONS (if you engage in them, which you have eluded to in the past). "
My life has been completely celibate in most years out of the past twenty-odd. I hope you are happy to hear that, because that is certainly a misery for me.

And that's good for you. Celibacy is no bad thing.

"That doesn't mean they can't like YOU, they just aren't going to agree with those kinds of actions"
If you cannot be happy for me when I feel joy, but only "like" me when I am miserable, what kind of a friend are you?

Because that joy is embedded in sin, if you are referring to having sex with another man, I don't really know what you are referring to as joy other than in that context. Christians generally aren't going to be happy for someone who is delighted in the false joy of sinning. Now, if you choose to turn away from sin, whole different story.

I thought you believed that Jesus was the Logos. Instead you worship a dead book.

Jesus is the Logos made flesh, and the Bible is very much the word of God and certainly not "dead".

 

[Saltmeister]

I'm not condemning YOU, I'm condemning your possible ACTIONS (if you engage in them, which you have eluded to in the past).

Regard you or regard homosexuality activity with contempt? There is a difference, you are not your orientation, your orientation is not the essence of your being.

I don't think Bob is talking about actions here. He is talking about emotional needs, emotional afflications and a state of mind. That is why he says "this is my life." He is not saying, my actions are my life. He is saying, my life is how I feel. That is why he said, "what you condemn is me."

Sure, if you condemn actions but not a person, you'd be right. What Bob is saying is that if you condemn homosexuality, you are not condemning someone's actions, but their feelings. That's because homosexuality is not about what you do, but what drives what you do -- your feelings. Bob is a homosexual in the mind, not the body.

You have made it clear that you condemn the behaviour, but do you condemn the state of mind? I think he wants us to understand him on these terms. The question then is, if one understands the mind, would one, then, still condemn the behaviour?

 

[Quahom1]

I don't think Bob is talking about actions here. He is talking about emotional needs, emotional afflications and a state of mind. That is why he says "this is my life." He is not saying, my actions are my life. He is saying, my life is how I feel. That is why he said, "what you condemn is me."

Sure, if you condemn actions but not a person, you'd be right. What Bob is saying is that if you condemn homosexuality, you are not condemning someone's actions, but their feelings. That's because homosexuality is not about what you do, but what drives what you do -- your feelings. Bob is a homosexual in the mind, not the body.

You have made it clear that you condemn the behaviour, but do you condemn the state of mind? I think he wants us to understand him on these terms. The question then is, if one understands the mind, would one, then, still condemn the behaviour?

Perhaps he is looking in the wrong place or at the wrong being for the fulfillment of his emotional needs...

Turning to any human for fulfillment of deep needs is a failed endeavor from the start. That is reserved for the One and only who can meet those needs, time and time again, and never fail at it. Now, the fulfillment part may come from a human being, but that human being will have been sent by God who answers the plea. On the other hand, God might do the fulfilling directly.

We can not tell God how to fix our broken "toy"...only that it is broken, and we ask Him to fix it...then stand back and let Him do his work, for us.

Bob, wants it done his way, and God doesn't work that way. God works His own way, and wants Bob to accept that and be patient for the best results. Bob has a problem with that, so God and Bob are at an impasse...

 

[madeinrussia89]

I don't think Bob is talking about actions here. He is talking about emotional needs, emotional afflications and a state of mind. That is why he says "this is my life." He is not saying, my actions are my life. He is saying, my life is how I feel. That is why he said, "what you condemn is me."

Sure, if you condemn actions but not a person, you'd be right. What Bob is saying is that if you condemn homosexuality, you are not condemning someone's actions, but their feelings. That's because homosexuality is not about what you do, but what drives what you do -- your feelings. Bob is a homosexual in the mind, not the body.

You have made it clear that you condemn the behaviour, but do you condemn the state of mind? I think he wants us to understand him on these terms. The question then is, if one understands the mind, would one, then, still condemn the behaviour?

I tried to make it a point to say homosexual actions and not feelings. You can have an inclination to have sex with another man (although I'm not promoting it by any means), but if you pull yourself back from doing the actual action, then look, you have pulled yourself away from sin, Good job. To turn away from sin is exactly what God wants us to do.

I am not one to condemn someone's state of mind, thoughts, feelings. How could I possibly know them? I am not living in your psyche. Also, I am not a Catholic, while thought is important, it does not equal action.

It doesn't matter if you understand why someone thinks what they do, that doesn't make it any less correct to condemn the behavior.

This is a really bad analogy, so take no offense because I am not connecting homosexual actions with it, but I'm going to use it to make a point.

If we understand why a pedophile rapes a child, that doesn't make raping the child any less worth condemnation. It's still a terrible terrible sin.

 

[Quahom1]

I tried to make it a point to say homosexual actions and not feelings. You can have an inclination to have sex with another man (although I'm not promoting it by any means), but if you pull yourself back from doing the actual action, then look, you have pulled yourself away from sin, Good job. To turn away from sin is exactly what God wants us to do.

I am not one to condemn someone's state of mind, thoughts, feelings. How could I possibly know them? I am not living in your psyche. Also, I am not a Catholic, while thought is important, it does not equal action.

It doesn't matter if you understand why someone thinks what they do, that doesn't make it any less correct to condemn the behavior.

This is a really bad analogy, so take no offense because I am not connecting homosexual actions with it, but I'm going to use it to make a point.

If we understand why a pedophile rapes a child, that doesn't make raping the child any less worth condemnation. It's still a terrible terrible sin.

I don't think it is the "body" one lusts after, that God hates, but rather the "lust" after the forbidden that He hates. To be attracted to the opposite sex is natural. To be attracted to the same sex is not natural (it makes no sense at all).

To love those of both sexes, in an other than sexual way, is quite frankly, what we're supposed to do.

It's that physical sex thing that hangs everybody up. But even that can be overcome.

What really gets people is that alternative physical sex thing, forced upon society, and "oh, by the way...your children will be taught it too, whether you like it or not...and you will acknowledge us and you will accept us and you will put up with us and you will pay for us, and you will like it, because we deserve it and God has nothing to do with society because God does not exist, and that is what we are going to instill in your children, because we know better than you, and there is nothing you can do about it because we are the new echelons, and you are quaint and outdated and ready for extinction..."

Yeah? Not on my watch...so help me God.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Does our uneasiness with homosexuality really come from God? God hates the sin for sure, but isn't it a matter of scale? The same text that puts homo's in hell has liars flying in the aisle seat. Nobody is all that outraged about living in a world chock full of liars even though God hates their sin as much as ****. Of course it's rare that you see a liar pride parade, so maybe it's more about being out and honest? So is it really just about degrees of socially acceptable denial?

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

Does our uneasiness with homosexuality really come from God? God hates the sin for sure, but isn't it a matter of scale? The same text that puts homo's in hell has liars flying in the aisle seat. Nobody is all that outraged about living in a world chock full of liars even though God hates their sin as much as ****. Of course it's rare that you see a liar pride parade, so maybe it's more about being out and honest? So is it really just about degrees of socially acceptable denial?

Chris

I don't think the "sin" is greater or lessor than any other sin Chris. But the Attitude is what bothers God.

Most people tuck head and hold out hands to God for their indisgretions...

The Homosexual side of our house (a powerful group of) flaunts it and tells God to P**s off. Then goes on to attempt to force society to accept them and their ways, or there is something wrong with the majority of society?

I think here is a perfect example of "not in my face". Only it is God saying that, yet the advocates for homosexuality could care less what God is saying, or for that matter, what the majority of society is saying.

And Metropolis type cities, are not the majority Chris. Villages, Towns and Farm communities still hold the majority of US citizens...

Cities do not keep a nation alive...farmers do...

 

[madeinrussia89]

I don't think it is the "body" one lusts after, that God hates, but rather the "lust" after the forbidden that He hates. To be attracted to the opposite sex is natural. To be attracted to the same sex is not natural (it makes no sense at all).

We all know God doesn't like lust regardless of who it is directed to.

But, I'm not going to condemn someone, or their thoughts, only God knows what they are really thinking anyway.

What really gets people is that alternative physical sex thing, forced upon society, and "oh, by the way...your children will be taught it too, whether you like it or not...and you will acknowledge us and you will accept us and you will put up with us and you will pay for us, and you will like it, because we deserve it and God has nothing to do with society because God does not exist, and that is what we are going to instill in your children, because we know better than you, and there is nothing you can do about it because we are the new echelons, and you are quaint and outdated and ready for extinction..."

Yeah? Not on my watch...so help me God.

I couldn't agree more, except that it is on your watch, and that is the reality children grow up with across the world.

 

[madeinrussia89]

The same text that puts homo's in hell has liars flying in the aisle seat.

It's all about confessing your sins to God and repenting for them. There are former murderers in Heaven, all because of repentance.

 

[Quahom1]

We all know God doesn't like lust regardless of who it is directed to.

Horses ass. God designed lust and desire into man. The whole point in this issue is for man to desire after his wife and his wife to desire after her husband. That is also called Lust. It is good in the eyes of God, because it means boy will not go after anyone else but his girl, and vise versa.

God loves man desiring after his mate. It makes God's plan work that much easier. And it gives Him pleasure to see that his creation is righteously giving and receiving pleasure to each other. The point is that the "mates" be bonded, and opposite in sex...because there is a second part to the pleasure...the creation of new life. And a third part...in that love raise the new ones to become adults and start the dance again...

That is the reality of life and the "Desire" of God.

 

[Quahom1]

We all know God doesn't like lust regardless of who it is directed to.

But, I'm not going to condemn someone, or their thoughts, only God knows what they are really thinking anyway.



I couldn't agree more, except that it is on your watch, and that is the reality children grow up with across the world.

My "two children", are now young husbands themselves. They also chose to serve their country by putting on the uniform, and they have infants of their own. What shocked me, was the day I walked into their homes, and we sat down for supper...

They raise their hands, and bow their heads, and invite God to be present, before each meal; such a simple but profound testament to the past and hope for the future...I think, I started something good...the rest of you better get crackin'... (lol)

v/r

Q

 

[greymare]

me thinks, Im lagging behind. LOL

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I don't think the "sin" is greater or lessor than any other sin Chris. But the Attitude is what bothers God.

Most people tuck head and hold out hands to God for their indisgretions...

The Homosexual side of our house (a powerful group of) flaunts it and tells God to P**s off. Then goes on to attempt to force society to accept them and their ways, or there is something wrong with the majority of society?

I think here is a perfect example of "not in my face". Only it is God saying that, yet the advocates for homosexuality could care less what God is saying, or for that matter, what the majority of society is saying.

And Metropolis type cities, are not the majority Chris. Villages, Towns and Farm communities still hold the majority of US citizens...

But Josh, where is it implied that the penitence of recidivist sinners mitigates God's just anger? Liars don't admit they lie, but if caught they might hedge. Out Homosexuals revel in their sin. But in the final analysis at the Judgment, which is worse: continuing to sin and expressing remorse only when caught, or sinning with abandon and accepting the guilt?

Maybe we should give equal time. Perhaps, just to catch up, we should talk about liars for a bazillion turns, then all the other deadly sins, and then come back to ****. I mean, the only reason we focus on them is their audacious honesty.

Chris

 

[bob x]

Caring about someone, the act of caring about someone's welfare - whether they live or die, is never wrong.

When I care for someone, I don't just want to keep him alive, I want to do whatever makes him happy, rather than "I love you, but not enough to do that".

And it's just fantastic how you assume every christian wants to stop your insurance coverage from going to your partner or vice versa

Not "every" Christian, just the majority.

like we're all financial vampires trying to suck the house out from under you

Not every Christian wants to make sure I can be evicted from my house, or fired from my job, just for being who I am-- but of course the legislative effort to prevent such discrimination is going to fail again, because of the Christians (it is always the Christians, never anybody else, who fights to do me injury) . There was a legislative effort to provide national assistance to local governments faced with gay-bashing murders (Laramie, Wyoming was almost wiped out financially by the Shepard case), but the good Christians blocked it, spreading hysterical rumors among the flock that "it is going to become a federal crime to read from the Bible!" (I am not making this up). In Michigan, school administrations are not allowed to intervene in bullying cases if the bullying takes the form of queer-bashing, because that is protected "religious speech"; there is a legislative effort to change that, but of course the Christians are going to block it.

that is certainly a misery for me.
And that's good for you.

You wonder why I find Christians evil??

Celibacy is no bad thing.

For some people, sure. I am not one of them. God does not make us all alike.

Christians generally aren't going to be happy for someone who is delighted in the false joy of sinning.

There is nothing false in the joy, and there is nothing sinful in loving.

Jesus is the Logos made flesh, and the Bible is very much the word of God and certainly not "dead".

Jesus was often critical of the Old Testament laws, acknowledging that they were written for primitive tribes when people knew no better, for example saying bluntly of the law on unilateral divorce "Out of hard-heartedness that was written." Someone like you who does not consider right and wrong to have anything to do with the difference between loving other people and doing them harm, but only to whether it violates the letter (the "dead" letter, as Paul called it) has nothing to do with Jesus, but rather has more in common with his crucifiers.

This is a really bad analogy, so take no offense because I am not connecting homosexual actions with it, but I'm going to use it to make a point.
If we understand why a pedophile rapes a child...

GODDAMN YOU TO THE DEEPEST PIT OF HELL, of course I take offense to such a comparison, but I am not surprised at such foulness from a Christian. It illustrates, more clearly than anything I could say, that you really have no comprehension of what makes pedophilia, or anything else, "wrong".

 

[bob x]

The Homosexual side of our house (a powerful group of) flaunts it and tells God to P**s off.

I have no quarrel with how God made me. It is you who are telling my Creator to piss off. I am telling certain humans, who has the effrontery to claim to speak for God, that they have nothing whatsoever to do with God.

Then goes on to attempt to force society to accept them and their ways...

Imagine that. We have the nerve to ask to be treated as if we were people.

Only it is God saying that, yet the advocates for homosexuality could care less what God is saying,

It is PRIMITIVE MIDDLE EASTERNERS who said it: the same book says that God considers shellfish-eaters an "abomination", and people who wear clothing with mixed fabrics, and people who cook on Saturdays (there is a death penalty inflicted in Numbers for attempted Saturday cooking-- he'd only gotten as far as gathering a little firewood, don't know what they would have done if he'd gotten it lit). But the only primitive part of the text that you will latch on to and continue to insist upon is the one that gives you an excuse for despising and abusing people for not being like yourself.

 

[Quahom1]

But Josh, where is it implied that the penitence of recidivist sinners mitigates God's just anger? Liars don't admit they lie, but if caught they might hedge. Out Homosexuals revel in their sin. But in the final analysis at the Judgment, which is worse: continuing to sin and expressing remorse only when caught, or sinning with abandon and accepting the guilt?

Maybe we should give equal time. Perhaps, just to catch up, we should talk about liars for a bazillion turns, then all the other deadly sins, and then come back to ****. I mean, the only reason we focus on them is their audacious honesty.

Chris

You had me Chris... until you stated our focus was on their "honesty"...