The Body and Blood

[RJM]

Last Sunday was for Catholics the feast of the Corpus Christi: The Body and Blood of Christ – or the Eucharist.

The first reading was from the letter of Paul to the Hebrews. I wanted to post it here, to demonstrate that Christianity (as opposed to a Jewish Yeshuan cult) was already strong around 60AD. I also think it explains concisely how Christians understand the Sacrifice of the Crucifixion as the last blood sacrifice to end blood sacrifice and how Christ was not just a messenger, but is Himself the message:


Hebrews 9:11-15
But when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and perfect tent/tabernacle (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation), he entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, with the sprinkling of the ashes of a heifer, sanctifies those who have been defiled so that their flesh is purified, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to worship the living God!

For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, because a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Read Hebrews 9 full chapter

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharistic offering bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ. The affirmation of this doctrine was expressed, using the word "transubstantiate", by the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215. It was later challenged by various 14th-century reformers, John Wycliffe in particular.
- wiki -

Hmm .. I'm not sure that I want to eat meat at all any more. Save the planet .. become vegan.
..and I'm certainly not interested in drinking blood of any description.

 

[RJM]

That is ridiculously simplistic and insulting of the meaning to Christians of the body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrament of bread and wine that Christ offered to his Apostles at the last supper.

You think you're being smart, but it is exactly that misunderstanding which has caused the torture and murder of Christians. And in your case it is deliberately disingenuous.

Have you read that passage, by the way? I will link it below ...

 

[RJM]

Hopefully these passages will remind you you that the literal cannibalism of flesh and blood is no where employed? And perhaps you will stop repeating the scurrilous allegation?

http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=490153684

Luke 22:19-20
Then he took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ And he did the same with the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=490154039

Mark 14: 22-24
While they were eating, he took a loaf of bread, and after blessing it he broke it, gave it to them, and said, ‘Take; this is my body.’Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he gave it to them, and all of them drank from it. He said to them, ‘This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That is ridiculously simplistic and insulting of the meaning to Christians of the body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic...

No it isn't.
I was raised as a protestant [ C of E ], and upon confirmation, one can partake of the eucharist, if they wish.
It is not compulsory, and is not emphasised in the same way as in Catholicism.

There are many Christian Churches that do not include the eucharist at all in their services.
Do you do any research on other people's beliefs, or do you just react when somebody criticises yours?

 

[RJM]

I was raised as a protestant [ C of E ], and upon confirmation, one can partake of the eucharist, if they wish.
It is not compulsory, and is not emphasised in the same way as in Catholicism.

The re are many Churhes churches that do not include the eucharist in their services.

What difference does that make? How does it relate?

Do you do any research on other people's beliefs, or do you just react when somebody criticises yours?

Always the dodger. What you actually said:

Hmm .. I'm not sure that I want to eat meat at all any more. Save the planet .. become vegan.
..and I'm certainly not interested in drinking blood of any description.

 

[RJM]

Does anyone here deliberately insult your beliefs @muhammad_isa?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Does anyone here deliberately insult your beliefs @muhammad_isa?

Stop accusing me of insulting people deliberately, please.
It does not add anything to the discussion. You don't know what my intentions are, you can only guess.

Among United States Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week, the most observant group, 63% accepted that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ; the other 37% saw the bread and wine as symbols, most of them (23%) not knowing that the Church, so the survey stated, teaches that the elements actually become the body and blood of Christ, while the remaining 14% rejected what was given as the Church's teaching.
- wiki -

 

[RJM]

the most observant group, 63% accepted that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ;

The spiritual body of Christ, which he offered at the last supper. Did you read the gospel passages I posted above. I've been a Catholic all my life. I should know. All a bit too subtle and mystetious for you, of course.

Stop accusing me of insulting people deliberately, please.

Why did you write this?

Hmm .. I'm not sure that I want to eat meat at all any more. Save the planet .. become vegan.
..and I'm certainly not interested in drinking blood of any description.

Do you deny you wrote that? Did you write it to be funny? Don't you think it is deliberately insulting you wrote that?

I could write insulting deliberately misunderstood simplicities about what you believe. Wide eyed houris untouched by man on green cushions, etc. Do you believe there are virgins lining up waiting for you to have sex with in paradise? What would their mothers and fathers think of you?

I have LOTS more if I want. Please don't tempt me because I'm itching to respond towards you in kind.. But it would not be discussion then, would it? And it would not be the way these forums work.

 

[RJM]

Countless Christians including Catholics have died defending their faith. You have no right to sarcastically insult their faith on the internet from the safety of your keyboard.

I refuse to debate at your simplistic insulting level, which is bringing down the standard of the entire IO website, imo

 

[muhammad_isa]

Did you write it to be funny?

Not at all.
I saw that there were not many posters, so replied to your post.
I could ask you why you wrote the OP .. but I'm not.

There seems to be some confusion with the eucharist over the centuries. There are varying opinions.
I honestly don't know what goes through people's minds when they partake of the eucharist.
I never got "into it".

I have eaten black pudding from the North of England [ it's a sausage made with pigs blood ],
but I find the idea repulsive these days..

 

[RJM]

have eaten black pudding from the North of England [ it's a sausage made with pigs blood ],
but I find the idea repulsive these days..

You are writing this in a thread about the Blood of Christ?

 

[Thomas]

Stop accusing me of insulting people deliberately, please.

Then please stop belittling other people's faith.

This is the Christianity board. Non-Christians are requested to tread lightly here.

It does not add anything to the discussion.

Nor do your trite comments.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then please stop belittling other people's faith.

This is the Christianity board. Non-Christians are requested to tread lightly here.

I see .. you both take offence. I apologise for offending you both.
Nevertheless, it still remains that there is controversy between Christians on this issue.

Furthermore, neither of you have explained to me what goes on in your minds when you are partaking of the eucharist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This is the Christianity board. Non-Christians are requested to tread lightly here.

I tell you what .. why don't you make a sub-forum "Catholic", if you want to be left alone without challenge?
You won't find me discussing such topics in there

[ including "Is Jesus God"? ]

 

[RJM]

Furthermore, neither of you have explained to me what goes on in your minds when you are partaking of the eucharist.

Did you read the OP and rest of the thread?

I have eaten black pudding from the North of England [ it's a sausage made with pigs blood ],
but I find the idea repulsive these days..

You are writing this in a thread about the Blood of Christ?

Bump
Why did you write that?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why did you write that?

Why do you think?
What do you think about creating a "Catholic" sub-forum?
..or do you want to continue playing games at dominating the Christian board?

It's your website .. do as you wish.

 

[Cino]

I tell you what .. why don't you make a sub-forum "Catholic", if you want to be left alone without challenge?
You won't find me discussing such topics in there

[ including "Is Jesus God"? ]

DONNING MY MODERATOR TIARA

To me, the idea of interfaith dialog is to have a conversation, between followers of different world views, exploring the common points as well as the differences, in a respectful manner.

I feel strongly that statements like, "How can anyone believe XYZ, I can't get my head around that" are against the spirit of respectfully discussing differences in belief or point of view.

I also feel that retreating into mutually exclusive subforums to only discuss one's own faith is a rather dull, unimaginative solution to the challenge of interfaith dialogue.

The question of what a Christian feels when taking the Eucharist is a good interfaith topic, in my opinion. We are all here voluntarily. We are entitled to ask questions (respectfully) but we are not entitled to demand answers.

TAKING MOD TIARA OFF

Thank you for your attention and consideration.

 

[RJM]

have eaten black pudding from the North of England [ it's a sausage made with pigs blood ],
but I find the idea repulsive these da

Why did you post this in a thread about the Blood of Christ, that Christians consider sacred? If it is relevant, what do you mean by it? And if it is not, why did you say it? Why can't you at least make an honest pretence at trying to address the questions directed towards you?

 

[Cino]

For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, because a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

For those of us not familiar, what is the New Covenant? Which obligations are kept to honor it, by each side?