The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix 2
- Thread starter Tony Bristow-Stagg
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If we all agree to accept the writings of Baha'u'llah and his family (and their loaded interpretation of the scriptures of other faiths) as final truth for all humanity for the next 800 years to come, you mean?
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My point being they do not belong to an exclusive club, as your teaching proposes.
Yes – but understood in a Christian context, born again is the Holy Spirit indwelling in the soul.
Not quite ... that's where you're reading it wrong.
Faith is the Holy Spirit – there is no intermediate 'fourth-' or 'fifth degree'.
In His own words, Christ is not 'reflected', Christ enters the 'heart', the soul (the 'heart' being an analogous term for the whole person). (Matthew 18:20, John 12:26)
The idea of 'the mirror' always places you at one remove – it divorces one from the Mystery of Faith – a mirror reflects an external source.
In the Christian Mysteries that source – Christ – is immanently present. One bread, one body – the Mystical meaning of the Body of Christ.
It's there in rabbinic Judaism – shekkinah – it's there in the Quran, it's there in the Kaballah, it's there in the Sufi teachings – it's interesting that Rabbinic Judaism speaks of the Sabbath Bride, as does the New Testament.
What I'm trying to stress is, there are no 'degrees' of the Holy Spirit – what there might well be are degrees of awareness of the Divine Presence, and this is spoken of in the more esoteric terms – nefesh, ruach, neshamah in the Hebrew Tradition, psyche, nous and pneuma in the Greek – but these are constructs, the Spirit of God is One and Indivisible – the Spirit conforms the soul to Itself.
As an aside, in the Christian Tradition there are Gifts of the Holy Spirit, and there are Charisms. The difference is, the gifts are given to the individual towards that individual's sanctification – and such a person can pass through life unrecognised. Charisms are given to the one for the good of all – and Prophecy is an example.
What I'm arguing against is the Baha'i tendency to use language to distance the human soul from the Holy Spirit.
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I would consider Matthew 8:5-10 and test your conclusions against that.
But as ever you gloss over the salient point – I refute your idea that the human spirit is inherently satanic.
OK. I'll take it as a poorly-worded comment.
OK. I'll reflect on mine, you on yours – but let's not side-track.
Exactly – a frame of reference that requires you to refute certain elements of Scripture that do not fit your frame!
OI have read his comments on the Holy Spirit, and made my critique plain – he knowingly misinterprets the text by selective reference.
But you misunderstand Faith, that's the point.
That's categorically wrong. The Spirit of Faith is the Holy Spirit – the very verses you cite say that, how can you miss it?
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
No, it's not.
That you think that is even more tragic – have you actually read any of the Bible outside of Baha'i commentaries?
Oh, ye of little faith!
The most common phrase in the Bible is 'Fear not" (expressed in different ways, eg 'have no fear') – Do yourself a favour – look them up, and read them, and try to do it outside your Baha'i Box.
With these two eyes?
Or with the 'eye of the heart'?
You'd be staggered.
"Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,'
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,'
then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When youcome to know yourselves, then you will become known,
and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father.
But if you will not know yourselves,
you dwell inpoverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Gospel of Thomas, Logion 3.
I hope and pray that in time you will realise that 'the mirror' is a veil lifted between you and the Divine.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Thomas, I must admit, I have no idea why you said that, as God's Annointed Ones, One and All, are the Christ's. Christ has never been exclusive, they are all inclusive, One in God. it is our frames of references and own interpretations that make the Christ's exclusive.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Thomas, I agree that has been a precious understanding from my frame of reference, this topic has been explained in great detail, Abdul'baha has given many explanations on what Baha'u'llah offered about Soul/Spirit, this specific subject has been addressed.
The Procession of the Human Spirit from God
The 3 talks above this talk #54 (51 to 53) Are also on this topic.
Regards Tony
Only if you have the arrogance to reduce Jesus Christ to the same level as Baha'u'llah -- or choose your own latest self-declared new Jesus Christ ...
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Am I reading it wrong, or do I now have access to references, access to truths that Jesus promissed, when Jesus as Christ said I have more to say unto you. We can consider who the Spirit of Truth, that will guide us to all Truth is.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Thomas, if we polish the mirror of our heart, the Spirit is in the mirror. Jesus was the perfect polished mirror of the Holy Spirit, Born as that perfect mirror. We can have that spirit in our heart, only when we poilsh it and be born again.
These are analogous concepts as to how we experience God through a flesh heart, it is not a material reality, nothing actually goes into our heart.
As humans we need to remove the dross from the mirror of our heart, to reflect the Mirror of Christ. In fact we can be infinite whan this is achieved, we can be One soul in the one body of humanity, we can observe this in the material world.
Infinity Mirror
"One observes that as the angle between the mirrors decreases, the number of images that can be seen increases. In fact as the angle between the mirrors approaches 0 degrees (i.e., the mirrors are parallel to each other), the number of images approaches infinity."
I see the mirror analogy has far greater potential of explaining the emanation of the Holy Spirit of God in humanity.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
That is not my idea or found anywhere in the Baha'i Writings Thomas.
The issue is, everytime I give a reply, you are looking for points to refute, you are using that motivation as a frame of reference.
There is no Evil Thomas. It is only our relative capacity that enables Evil. Evil is but the lack of of the emanating force of Good. There is no darkness, just lack of emanating force of light.
Again, many references available.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
No scriptures are rejected Thomas, they also have other frames of reference.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
It says Faith is a gift Thomas.
We now know that Faith is a level of Spirit that eminates from God, that enables us to connect to the Holy Spirit.
So we both have our frames of references. I am happy with mone, you are happy with yours.
I am happy with that, peace is always my path and may peace be with you.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
We do make our own veils Thomas, I pray every day for those veils to be lifted. It is part of our Obligatory Prayers Thomas.
I gave the Oneness of God my best shot on this Forum and when arguing becomes the result, it is indeed time to stop.
The Tablet Of Ahmad contains a challenge to us about the veils we raise.
Maybe one day, that Tablet will be one we can all appreciate.
God bless, Regards Tony
Of course not. Pick the latest new messiah of your choice, lol
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