Longfellow
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that what Jesus wants for us is not for us to be Christians. What I think He wants for us is to be His disciples, and I think that there is a world of difference between Christians and disciples. I think that a person can be both at the same time, but that many and possibly most Christians are not disciples, and that there might be many disciples who are not Christians.
It looks to me like in the world today, "Christian" mostly only means having some beliefs or opinions about Jesus being uniquely important in some way.
In the Bible (KJV), Jesus says this about disciples:
- Matthew 10:24-25 – “The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.”
- Luke 14:27 – “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”
- Luke 14:33 – “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”
- John 8:31 – “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.”
He also says to follow Him or come after Him:
- Matthew 4:19 – “And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
- Matthew 16:24 – “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
- Mark 1:17 – “And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.”
- Luke 9:23 – “And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”
- John 10:27 – “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”
- John 12:26 – “If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.”
Jesus calls people disciples, followers, friends and sheep, but never "Christians," The Bible never calls anyone Christians except in a few cases as a name that other people use for people calling Jesus the Christ, a promised king of Israel. At that time it was what other people called them, but I think that is mostly *not* what it means today. I think that mostly what it means today is having some beliefs or opinions about Jesus, and nothing at all about being a disciple.
In John 13, Jesus washes the feet of His disciples, one of the lowliest services in society. Then He says:
John 13:34-35 (KJV): A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
(later) I'm hoping to find other people who care more about being a disciple of Jesus than about being a Christian. What I mean by that is seeing Him calling us to serve and obey Him, learning together to live the way He says to live, with or without believing what anyone thinks we need to believe to be saved or to be a Christian.
It looks to me like in the world today, "Christian" mostly only means having some beliefs or opinions about Jesus being uniquely important in some way.
In the Bible (KJV), Jesus says this about disciples:
- Matthew 10:24-25 – “The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.”
- Luke 14:27 – “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”
- Luke 14:33 – “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”
- John 8:31 – “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.”
He also says to follow Him or come after Him:
- Matthew 4:19 – “And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
- Matthew 16:24 – “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
- Mark 1:17 – “And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.”
- Luke 9:23 – “And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”
- John 10:27 – “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”
- John 12:26 – “If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.”
Jesus calls people disciples, followers, friends and sheep, but never "Christians," The Bible never calls anyone Christians except in a few cases as a name that other people use for people calling Jesus the Christ, a promised king of Israel. At that time it was what other people called them, but I think that is mostly *not* what it means today. I think that mostly what it means today is having some beliefs or opinions about Jesus, and nothing at all about being a disciple.
In John 13, Jesus washes the feet of His disciples, one of the lowliest services in society. Then He says:
John 13:34-35 (KJV): A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
(later) I'm hoping to find other people who care more about being a disciple of Jesus than about being a Christian. What I mean by that is seeing Him calling us to serve and obey Him, learning together to live the way He says to live, with or without believing what anyone thinks we need to believe to be saved or to be a Christian.
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That's His reason, but it should not be ours. Our reason should be because of what we see in Him.
... (and I mean that in the sociological rather than religious sense)
