Thoughts about Trinity beliefs

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In_Christ_Alone said:
I’ve never come across any Bible passage that says unrepentant souls suffer for only a limited time. If you know of one, please share.

On the other hand, I’ve found quite a few where God’s final judgment (whether it’s eternal life or eternal death) is described as lasting forever. Some of these were even spoken by Jesus Himself.

For example, in Matthew 25:46, here’s the original Greek from the New Testament along with a literal translation I found:

Matthew 25:46
Greek:
Καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Literal English:
And will go away these into punishment eternal, but the righteous into life eternal.

There’s also a passage (Daniel 12 : 2, in the Old Testament) that makes a similar point. Here’s the original Hebrew and a literal translation:

Hebrew:
וְרַבִּ֨ים מִֽיְשֵׁנֵ֤י אַדְמַת־עָפָר֙ יָקִ֔יצוּ אֵ֚לֶּה לְחֵיֵ֣י עוֹלָ֔ם וְאֵ֖לֶּה לַחֲרָפ֥וֹת לְדִרְא֖וֹן עוֹלָֽם׃
Literal English:
And many from the sleepers of the dust of the ground shall awake—these to life everlasting, and these to reproaches, to abhorrence everlasting.

So from what I’ve seen, the Bible presents these final outcomes as eternal rather than temporary. But again, if you have any passages, please share.!
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For the sake of discussion @Thomas .. where did we have our discussion on this topic? Might be easier to link that thread.
 
Faithfulservant said:
F

For the sake of discussion @Thomas .. where did we have our discussion on this topic? Might be easier to link that thread.
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I have heard there is translation questions about the word interpreted as “eternal.” As I recall the original word (Greek?) was Eons or something like that. Some interpretations say it means a long time, but not necessarily forever. I agree that eternal damnation is inconsistent with a loving God. A loving God would allow for, and probably assist, a transformation process in which souls finally align with the Harmony of the Source, Ground of Being (Being being a harmonious wholeness in and of itself), God. I sometimes personify the I-amness, Being (as in fully being) nature of God as “BOB” (Base Of Being,” a variation of Tillich’s Ground of Being). “Hey, Bob, please help me…” Or “Dear Bob, thanks so much for…”, etc.
 
I agree that God is a loving God but He is also a Just God. Look at the flood and sodom and gomorrah. Ninevah He threatened to destroy if they did not repent. I think its irresponsible to tell people that they will eventually be saved when scripture does not specifically say that. Scripture does talk about hell ALOT.. why the focus on warning about it if its a non issue.
 
When you know you know. I have no problems with scriptures supporting my beliefs. What i do not have is the umpteenth amount of religious commentators mucking it up. Thats just me though
 
Faithfulservant said:
When you know you know.
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I don't know what that means in this context.
Faithfulservant said:
What i do not have is the umpteenth amount of religious commentators mucking it up.
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Throughout Christian history various controversies and schisms developed because somebody always thought somebody else was - "mucking it up"
"Mucking it up" means... what? Disagreeing? Different interpretations of oblique or ambiguous scriptural references when none of the parties in the debate looked closely enough or was able to look closely enough into the historical, literary, cultural, or linguistic context of the disputed passage in question?
Or does "mucking it up" mean something else?
How does one identify which "commentator"-- believer, skeptic, scholar, mystic, clergy member, philosopher, theologian, or average Joe -- is definitely not "mucking it up"?
 
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Jesus told us that He would send His Holy Spirit to reveal the truth. Paul said the Holy Spirit would teach us. I NEVER trust a teacher that doesn't tell me to open my Bible and search out what I'm being taught for myself. So yeah I don't need religious commentators mucking up what the Word of God says if it doesn't agree. There are some mysteries that God chooses to reveal to a believer or not but if it's not spelled out I don't follow doctrines of men.
 
The word trinity may not be on the bible but a triune God is for me. I have no problem seeing it. And remember i dont listen to the many...
 
Jesus Father is his God before and after Jesus is resurrected and ascends to heaven.
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:16-17, Matt. 28:18
Do you let the Bible do the talking and explaining for your beliefs?
 
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walter said:
Jesus Father is his God before and after Jesus is resurrected and ascends to heaven.
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10; Matt. 16:16-17, Matt. 28:18
Do you let the Bible do the talking and explaining for your beliefs?
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Do you? Or do you let the watchtower interpret scripture for you. I'm not going to list why the Holy Spirit and Jesus are God to me.. read through all the threads we have on the trinity it's pretty thorough.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Do you? Or do you let the watchtower interpret scripture for you. I'm not going to list why the Holy Spirit and Jesus are God to me.. read through all the threads we have on the trinity it's pretty thorough.
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You don't just let the words in each scripture explain the meaning? How do you do it? Or do you let some other person tell you what each scripture means?

I don't think it's necessary to prove a point, I don't like to do an endless debate over what this word or that word means, I just like to present the reasons why I believe in something, and read the reasons why another person believes in something and just leave it at that, most of the time.
 
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walter said:
You don't just let the words in each scripture explain the meaning? How do you do it? Or do you let some other person tell you what each scripture means?

I don't think it's necessary to prove a point, I don't like to do an endless debate over what this word or that word means, I just like to present the reasons why I believe in something, and read the reasons why another person believes in something and just leave it at that, most of the time.
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Milk and meat. To just read the words on a page you get milk.. the Holy Spirit convicts us of Truth and thats how you get meat.

I ask Him to reveal His truth to me.. the scriptures open up and its like a divine understanding. I don't know how to explain it to an unbeliever. It's supernatural.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Milk and meat. To just read the words on a page you get milk.. the Holy Spirit convicts us of Truth and thats how you get meat.

I ask Him to reveal His truth to me.. the scriptures open up and its like a divine understanding. I don't know how to explain it to an unbeliever. It's supernatural.
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When I read the scriptures, I pray for guidance from God and his Holy Spirit, I believe God's Holy Spirit directs me to the scriptures that reveal the truth, I don't feel the Holy Spirit gives me new information, that is not already in God's word the Bible.

I never come up with a understanding that is not already explained in God's word. ❤️ Otherwise why would I read the Bible in the first place, I'm not going to listen to the Holy Spirit that tells me a different story, than God's word. Even in the first century the Apostles warned us not to listen to another gospel other than the original gospel from Jesus and the Apostles.

They said even if it comes from an angel reject the information.
 
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Galatians 1:6-9
New International Version
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

1 Timothy 4:1
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But The Spirit speaks plainly that in the last time they shall depart one by one from the faith and they shall go after deceiving spirits and after the teachings of demons, 2 These persons who deceive by false appearances and speak lies and sear their consciences;

2nd John 9-11
New International Version
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

Because of scriptures like these, I strictly stick with the Holy Scriptures only. - This is just something I do.
 
I don't know how I missed all this. What I think that people need to know most of all is that Jesus has all the power, authority, knowledge and wisdom of God, and in fact there is no power, authority, knowledge or wisdom of God in the world, other than His.
 
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