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I would assume that important experiences of spiritual growth need not be blissful but can force us into uncomfortable spaces within and outside ourselves?

I would also say that RJM was simply the catalyst, it seemed like it was a nomad nature in Cobblers. I also miss him.

wil is sort of irreverent about these sorts of things...

Very reasonable I think. But on what does faith rest if not an experience? Not the pure logic of the theology, right? Experience and faith. Chicken and egg?

I invited them in once. Ended up studying the Bible with them over several years, a while it was every week. Fascinating objects of study!

I doubt that: Scientism is an ideology that promotes science as the only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values. Empiricism is a theory that states that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. Me as well!

No need for that. Just put that guy on ignore and move on.

Don't see why that would be necessary. I've tried to get into that head of yours, but I feel like I'm just chasing my tail. This dog is taking a nap for now.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Do you have a non-theological example of this?

Not your statements, quoted statements.

It seems to me that you often get in situations where you feel the need to distance yourself from certain statements. "I didn't say this or that". I'm saying that if you chose a more neutral language, a lot of side issues can be skipped to get to what you are actually trying to get at. I'm not...

Mhm, I remember. And what are those failings?

Salvation = improvement/perfection? Usually this is how people write about Enlightenment, but I don't recognize it as an aspect of Salvation.

My I suggest letting go of those words? They bring a lot of baggage into the discussion that I don't think you are interested in. You don't say!

Yes, it is another thing? He's aware of his flaws, but his flaws doesn't come into it when you talk about him. I think that's interesting. Do you think his texts have limitations?

Going from your telling of him, he doesn't seem to actually have faults?

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out the premise of the question. You are framing this surrounding 'belief' and I'm testing what belief is here. Your quotes seem to elude to conscious actions taken in the context of certain convictions/world-views/beliefs. I'm not saying that you are stating...

So you are saying that we are capable of discovering these truths on our own, according to these... teachings?

Be careful, they might see more similarities than you realize...

Do these fall outside of belief?