Iraqi prisoner abuses?

Namaste all,

thank you for the topic, brian.

unfortunately for us all... war is hell. this isn't some colorful metaphor to try to indicate the horrible conditions that one has to face.. it is, literally, hell.

beings in hell do all manner of things which, were they in other conditions, they would not engage in. it is difficult for those of us not in those situations to have a grasp of what they are going through.

that being said... i'm rather split on the whole thing.

there are aspects of this that are worse than other aspects so i think we need to be a bit specific.

murder (killing of any kind, really) is right out. sodomy is out, rape is out, physical torture is out as well. if these techniques are not allowed to be employeed (and they should never be, in my opinion) how does one get a hardened jihadist to divulge where the next terrorist action will be?

psychological techniques are used to break the prisoner at which point information can be extracted.

this has been a method employeed by militarys from time immemorial... remember how the Shou Emperor put the heads of the captured leaders on poles and marched into battle with them? ok.. well.. maybe you don't, but that's ok. the Mongols would raze the first city they fought in a new region to extert psychological pressue on the remaining citizens, military and nobility to surrender or face the same brutality.

have i already mentioned that war is hell?

I keep seeing these photos pop up in the news and it has crossed my mind that these could be propaganda simply to stir up further hatred towards the cohilition forces. Its very easy to doctor a photo.
If these photos are real then the soldiers who committed the acts want shooting.:mad: The people of Iraq have had 23 years of living in fear of death and torture at the hands of Hussein's army, the last thing they want is more from the hands of the liberators.
The original photos of British troops in alleged abuses, published here in the UK by the Daily Mirror, are almost certainly fakes.

Funny, though - I was speaking to a friend today. He made a point that he wasn't surprised at the allegation against the US, but would have been surprised if any other nation in the country was so systematically involved in prisoner abuses.
I don't know why, but I am kinda like apt to agree with your friend. As I say, don't know why, it certainly isn't reflective of my opinion on most US citizens. Could be that it is very good anti American and British propoganda that's influencing my thoughts.
I often wonder if its supporters of Bin Laden that are creating all of the propoganda against the British and American troops.
I'm not sure whether to believe the Iraqii that was interviewed last night on TV. I have to say that I viewed the interview with scepticism.
Bloody hell? My sentiments too.

There isn't a lot more than can be said. Well, there is but it isn't polite:mad:
I was also talking to a friend today and he said he wouldn't put the abuses past either armed force in consideration of the bullying that is endured in the barracks. The bullying in barracks has been fairly well highlighted in the news in recent years.

I now don't know what to say. Saddens me to think that this could be ongoing.
A funny thought occured to me - of all those people in Middle-Eastern countries outraged by these acts - yet these are standard practices of their own governments. Perhaps it's more the fact that we like to hold some light to our progress as civilisations that such actions are so overtly condemned. However, there are plenty other causes of systematic abuse - and outright torture - happening all over the world. That's why we have organisations such as Amesty International
It is a fact that these type of acts are committed quite frequently in middle eastern countries.

However I watched a programme a week gone Sunday on ITV called 'Inside Saddam's Iraq' and it basically was a programme that gave the everyday Iraqii a say. I have to say I watched it close to tears best part of the way through and the people lived in abject terror wondering who was going to be next. Everyday citizens arrested for the smallest of 'crime' (a 17 year old girl arrested for merely belonging to the student's union), sometimes no crime at all, tortured, killed in the most horrific of ways. It was a compelling programme, compelling yet horrible. The people of Iraq gave no resistance to the cohilition forces when they went in because they were worn down/sick of living in fear of Saddam's army. And if all the stories are to be believed, the same forces who disposed of their nightmare are doing precisely the same acts to them.
I wonder why Amnesty International didn't step into Iraq a long time ago.
I know war isn't pretty, I know its not exactly humane but it shouldn't be like this.:(
I said:
Its disgusting. Plain and simple. This is an old thread so it needs updating with the fact that the original photos of hoods, leashes and nudity (which I'm almost inclined to forgive) are a thing of the past. I'm dreading the rumored 'video' that has shut up every pundit that defended prisoner abuse thus far.

After the Nick Berg video I could make jokes about Lyndie Englands goofy smirk and point gesture. Makes me want to freakin' vomit now.