Investigation on the Identity of the Serpent in Genesis ? (3)

[soleil10]

Let us summarize the first 2 previous posts. We began with a talking snake in Eden. We've been able to ascertain that this "serpent" is, rather, an inteligent spiritual being. We further gathered information that reveals a corruption process and that this being is not only and angel but an archangel.

Finally, the revealing of the identity of the serpent takes place in Isaiah 14:12 "how you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer son of dawn.
Lucifer the archangel is the serpent who tempts the daughter of God to eat the fruit that God said not to eat.

So rather than a "serpent" tempting the daughter of God to eat the fruit...we are dealing with a revered presence in the Garden.... Lucifer the Archangel.

What was Lucifer's role in Eden ?
Ezekiel 28:12-19 is very revealing. Lucifer is referred to as a "covering cherub." This is akin to guardian angel. Lucifer was there to "protect ands serve".

Why would scripture use the symbol of "serpent"to represent the archangel Lucifer ?

We can see the consistent use of the symbol as a methaphor for wisdom. Jesus said: "be wise as serpents but gentle as doves".

Ezekiel 298:17 reports about the “covering cherub” in Eden. “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth.”

So it is Lucifer who was placed in the garden, amost revered angel of wisdom and light, to protect, to “cover” the son and daughter of God during their period growing period.

How utterly convoluted is his actual demeanor. Something has so affected him that now, rather than protecting and serving, he becomes”serpent” bent on corrupting the daughter of God; enticing her with the very fruit God had instructed them not to eat.

The next part of this investigation will be fouc on the motivation and process of Lucifer and the human fall

 

[Thomas]

We've been able to ascertain that this "serpent" is, rather, an inteligent spiritual being.

No, there is no assertion that the serpent is a spiritual being. All we know is the serpent is very clever, and apparently overhead what God said to Adam and Eve, and disputes it.

We further gathered information that reveals a corruption process and that this being is not only and angel but an archangel.

No, that's your jumping to conclusions.

Finally, the revealing of the identity of the serpent takes place in Isaiah 14:12 "how you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer son of dawn. Lucifer the archangel is the serpent who tempts the daughter of God to eat the fruit that God said not to eat.

No, that's wrong.

Isaiah 14:12 is talking of the King of Babylon who regarded himself as a god. So the scribe likens him to the 'Morning Star' which one can liken to a star trying to be the sun. The Day Star 'falls' when the true sun rises.

The name 'Lucifer' is a Latin rendering of the Hebrew — but the Hebrew heylel never intended to signify anyone but the King of Babylon. The Christian reading is an analogical one, not a literal one, so we cannot say that Isaiah is 'talking' about Lucifer — he is not.

So rather than a "serpent" tempting the daughter of God to eat the fruit...we are dealing with a revered presence in the Garden.... Lucifer the Archangel.

Sadly, that would be an incorrect reading.

Thomas

 

[soleil10]

No, there is no assertion that the serpent is a spiritual being. All we know is the serpent is very clever, and apparently overhead what God said to Adam and Eve, and disputes it.

Well, someone who is clever, who can listen, who can talk, who knows personally about the commandment given by God and is not human ? what can that be ? I do not know about such animal.

No, that's your jumping to conclusions.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

No, that's wrong.
Isaiah 14:12 is talking of the King of Babylon who regarded himself as a god.

I am aware of that. Often Oracles draws their imagery from a distant past.
I believe, it is the case here

 

[Bishadi]

What was Lucifer's role in Eden ?

who is lucifer?

seems the story is an old metaphor about 'consciousness' being born

and how it please's GOD so much he clothed them, and we all alive with the ability of choice.

see the lower half of this post

this here below, is pretty bad at how it is interpreted but i provided material and links so anyone can read it themselves

Ezekiel 28:12-19 is very revealing. Lucifer is referred to as a "covering cherub." This is akin to guardian angel. Lucifer was there to "protect ands serve".

the prophecy is about the messiah telling israel (mount of god) off... the monsters of gemstones (who controls the industry)

12. "Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, So said the Lord God: You are the one who engraves images, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13. In Eden, the garden of God you were; every precious stone was [set in] your covering; ruby, topaz, diamond, chrysolite, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, carbuncle, and crystal and gold; the work of your drums and your orifices is in you; on the day of your creation they were established.

14. You were a cherub of great measure, that covers, and I gave that to you; you were on the mount of the sanctuary of God: you walked among stones of fire.

15. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created until wrongdoing was found in you.

16. Because of the multitude of your commerce, they filled you with violence and you sinned, and I shall cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire.

soleil10


Ezekiel 298:17 reports about the “covering cherub” in Eden. “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth.”

sorry

17. Your heart became haughty because of your beauty; you destroyed your wisdom with your brightness; I have cast you upon the ground; I have set you before kings to gaze upon you.

18. Because of the multitude of your iniquities, with the wrongdoing of your commerce, you profaned your sanctity, and I shall bring forth fire out of your midst-it will consume you, and I shall make you ashes on the ground before the eyes of all who see you.

19. All who know you among the peoples will wonder over you; you shall be a terror, and you shall be no more, ever."

talking about israel


from a jewish source
Genesis - Chapter 3 (Parshah Berei****) - Genesis

and to look at the different languages to compare

Polyglot Bible: Genesis: Genesis 3

Gen 3
20. And the man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all life.


21. And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife shirts of skin, and He dressed them.


22. Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever."

so do you believe the ideas of man, or do you believe GOD?

Seems God was kind of PROUD of the choice, clothed them and said hey......... you all will live..........

and since we are ALL here and still talking about adam and eve, then it seems they did do what God created them to do.

otherwise the idea that God created a devol, with the intent to harm mankind.......... is 'less than' pure........

in my opinion.

 

[Marsh]

Finally, the revealing of the identity of the serpent takes place in Isaiah 14:12 "how you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer son of dawn.

I agree with Thomas that this is not a reference to Satan. Later on in that passage, Isaiah says, "Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?'"

However, like much of the Bible I think there is both a literal and figurative interpretation for this passage. Literally, the Son of Dawn is the king of Babylon. Figuratively, I think that it is a reference to the anti-Christ, rather than to Satan. Jesus refers to himself as the Bright Morning Star in his Revelation. Son of Dawn too is sometimes rendered as Morning Star or Star of the Morning. In fact, if you read the passage carefully it almost sounds like Isaiah is talking about Jesus' crucifixion and death:

9Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.

10(P) All of them will answer
and say to you:
'You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!'

like a loathed branch,
(X) clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.

To me, these three passages sound a lot like how Jesus was slain, mocked, and thrown away by the world. We know that Jesus received the punishment that he did not deserve, right? Doesn't that suggest that the punishment Jesus received will be the exact punishment that the anti-Christ deserves?

My thoughts...

 

[soleil10]

I agree with Thomas that this is not a reference to Satan. Later on in that passage, Isaiah says, "Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?'"

However, like much of the Bible I think there is both a literal and figurative interpretation for this passage. Literally, the Son of Dawn is the king of Babylon. Figuratively, I think that it is a reference to the anti-Christ, rather than to Satan. Jesus refers to himself as the Bright Morning Star in his Revelation. Son of Dawn too is sometimes rendered as Morning Star or Star of the Morning. In fact, if you read the passage carefully it almost sounds like Isaiah is talking about Jesus' crucifixion and death:

I responded to Thomas earlier on that verse.

The point that I was making about Lucifer being an Archangel who had fallen is also in Matthew 25:41 (King James Version)

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

 

[Marsh]

I responded to Thomas earlier on that verse.

The point that I was making about Lucifer being an Archangel who had fallen is also in Matthew 25:41 (King James Version)

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

So..... basically, you're just telling us what's what, I guess, without room for discussion?

 

[soleil10]

So..... basically, you're just telling us what's what, I guess, without room for discussion?

Of course not. I should have taken the time to respond to your comment and not just referto an answer I made to someone else. That was rude of me.

I am sorry