Why we are saved by Grace, faith and works

[soleil10]

There is an endless debate about this subject. I am convinced we need the 3 (grace, faith and works). Here is why ?

-Since we did not commit the Original sin but inherited it from the "Spiritually dead" fallen Adam, thus salvation must be inherited (Grace) from a Messiah who is a living sinless Adam

Still Jesus asked us to believe in him (Faith) and to follow him (Works). When we forget one of the 3, we miss the target.

1)How can we claim to be saved while continuing a sinfull and fallen lifestyle. We are still responsible for our personal sins, family sins and our collective sins.

 

[lunamoth]

Can there be such a thing as a barren salvation?

Can there be such a thing as a salvation you don't trust?

 

[soleil10]

Can there be such a thing as a barren salvation?

Can there be such a thing as a salvation you don't trust?

Luna, I am sorry but I do not understand what you meant. Can you explain again ?

 

[lunamoth]

Luna, I am sorry but I do not understand what you meant. Can you explain again ?

I'd be happy to talk about this more, but right now I have to go out for a bit.

Maybe you could explain first your view of what salvation is, what we are saved from.

Cheers.

 

[soleil10]

I'd be happy to talk about this more, but right now I have to go out for a bit.Maybe you could explain first your view of what salvation is, what we are saved from.Cheers.

God’s salvation of man means God’s restoration of fallen and sinful man to his original state of goodness — to the position where he can fulfill the 3 blessings given in Genesis.

Thus, God’s ultimate purpose in salvation is to restore first an individual (messiah) to the sinless state that God originally created, raise him to be an ideal individual one with Him, establish an ideal marriage/family from his Godly seed centered on God and based on that family, establish an ideal society, nation, and world. That would be the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

 

[lunamoth]

I think we are saved purely by God's grace. Unconditional, unmerited, in spite of.

But, what could it possibly mean to be saved to a life with and in God if you don't first trust (have faith) that that is possible and desirable?

And what good would that salvation (life with and in God) be if we did not live and act as if that were a foundation of our life? The fruits come from that life in Christ, which in turn came freely by grace.

God’s salvation of man means God’s restoration of fallen and sinful man to his original state of goodness — to the position where he can fulfill the 3 blessings given in Genesis.

To me the original state of 'goodness' means that our will is again naturally aligned with God's.

Thus, God’s ultimate purpose in salvation is to restore first an individual (messiah) to the sinless state that God originally created, raise him to be an ideal individual one with Him, establish an ideal marriage/family from his Godly seed centered on God and based on that family, establish an ideal society, nation, and world. That would be the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

Woah! That's a highly individual interpretation of the Bible and Christianity. Not even addressing what it means to 'restore' the Messiah to a sinless state (he was born sinless and remained so), Jesus did not have a family, and even if he did where would that leave the rest of us?

 

[soleil10]

Woah! That's a highly individual interpretation of the Bible and Christianity.

I am just folllowing what the bible says. Do you agree that God gave 3 specific Blessings to A&E in Genesis. That was His plan and formula to build the Kingdom before the humam fall derail it. HIs plan has not changed.

Not even addressing what it means to 'restore' the Messiah to a sinless state (he was born sinless and remained so),

You are right, I should explain it better. Here is what I meant.
Yes Jesus was born sinless and remained so, but there was a specific preparation over 4000 years of biblical history to prepare for him to be born sinless. The lineage and the womb that he was born from had to be prepared.

Jesus did not have a family, and even if he did where would that leave the rest of us?

Yes, Jesus was rejected and killed before he was able to marry. The salvation that we recieve by his victory on the cross through him and the Holy Spirit is a spiritual salvation. Jesus was not able to offer his Godly seed and start the new sinless lineage of God that Satan could not claim.
This is the reason, we are still born with the original sin even today.

Only the Messiah who came as a second Adam can remove the inherited sin from Adam.
If Jesus could have started a family, humnanity could have connected to this new lineage of the new Tree of Life (Jesus).

This is why there is a need for a third Adam. According to the bible Jesus was the second Adam.

What I am saying is pretty simple and logical

 

[lunamoth]

I am just folllowing what the bible says. Do you agree that God gave 3 specific Blessings to A&E in Genesis. That was His plan and formula to build the Kingdom before the humam fall derail it. HIs plan has not changed.

I do not know the three blessings you are referring to.

Yes, Jesus was rejected and killed before he was able to marry. The salvation that we recieve by his victory on the cross through him and the Holy Spirit is a spiritual salvation. Jesus was not able to offer his Godly seed and start the new sinless lineage of God that Satan could not claim.
This is the reason, we are still born with the original sin even today.

Only the Messiah who came as a second Adam can remove the inherited sin from Adam.
If Jesus could have started a family, humnanity could have connected to this new lineage of the new Tree of Life (Jesus).

This is why there is a need for a third Adam. According to the bible Jesus was the second Adam.

What I am saying is pretty simple and logical

Are you a member of the Unification Church?

 

[soleil10]

I do not know the three blessings you are referring to.

The 3 blessings are quite known. 1) Be fruitfull (reach maturity) 2) Multiply, 3) Dominate the earth
Adam and Eve fell before they reached the first blessing (maturity)
Genesis is quite short in comparaison to the whole bible. The rest of the bible is about God's plan of salvation to restore mankind, so we often forget God' s original promise.

Are you a member of the Unification Church?

yes, I am an unificationist.

 

[lunamoth]

The 3 blessings are quite known. 1) Be fruitfull (reach maturity) 2) Multiply, 3) Dominate the earth
Adam and Eve fell before they reached the first blessing (maturity)
Genesis is quite short in comparaison to the whole bible. The rest of the bible is about God's plan of salvation to restore mankind, so we often forget God' s original promise.

So, we pretty much share those first two with the birds (Gen 1:22).

My Bible does not say 'dominate' the earth, but points more that we are stewards over it. The word used is 'dominion,' which means authority or rule. Probably about the same but to dominate has the connotation of 'do whatever we want with it,' which I do not think is the case.

 

[soleil10]

So, we pretty much share those first two with the birds (Gen 1:22).

Like the animals, we have a physical body that grows automaticaly with food, water and light. Humans have to grow their spirtual side, as we are not just creature. A fruit is mature went it is ripe and reach its perfect stage. God gave A&E a commadment until they reach maturity.

My Bible does not say 'dominate' the earth, but points more that we are stewards over it. The word used is 'dominion,' which means authority or rule. Probably about the same but to dominate has the connotation of 'do whatever we want with it,' which I do not think is the case.

Once we had reach maturity (perfection of heart) from Gods point of view, we would protect the environment. We can dominate with love or hate. I think you know what I mean. I agree with you.

We have to have dominion over our body first before we can even have dominion over the environment. It would be like a smoker talking about cleaning the air form pollution.