Coming to know God - Book or Spirit?

Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Shades of Reason
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We can read scripture everyday of our lives, but I think we need to experience G-d deep with ourselves, and not just read about Him in a book. You can only get so much information from scripture, and then the question remains - How accurate is that information? God deals with the heart, and it is in our hearts that He reveals himself.

I think a persons theology is pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I personally believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most. When Christ enters the heart of man, He changes them from the inside out. This is true repentance, and worship - It is when we allow His Spirit to manifest within ourselves, and honor that Spirit in all we do.

Too many people put far too much stock in intellectual pursuits, when God deals with the heart. Far too many place more faith in scripture, and far too little in the Spirit. It might even be suggested that this is idolatry in and of itself [IMO]. You can worship a book, or you can worship God and His son who make their dwelling in the heart of man as Spirit/Love.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not suggesting that we quit reading scripture. I'm merely suggesting that God is to be experienced and not just read about.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

But it is also written ....

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
Joh 5:42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

It isn't scripture that saves us, but rather the Spirit of Christ who makes His dwelling in those who desire righteousness.


GK
 
The Buddha didn't need scripture to experience enlightenment.

The most valuable "scripture" is the moment at hand, the one you are experiencing right now.
 
You know, it occurs to me that even having a concept of God within the mind is a kind of idolatry.
 
Paladin said:
You know, it occurs to me that even having a concept of God within the mind is a kind of idolatry.
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LOL, so how do we ditch our preconceived notions about who God is then? Experience vs mental concept. Geesh, how can man ever get past what we already think we know? :eek:

GK
 
Well, it would have to be a personal decision, not everyone is ready for that.
I suppose the best way would be to go within, in silence with empty hands and open heart. :)
 
citizenzen said:
The Buddha didn't need scripture to experience enlightenment.

The most valuable "scripture" is the moment at hand, the one you are experiencing right now.
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True, but since you don't know how and prefer falling asleep, you need scripture as an awakening influence. Otherwise your world will only consist or fighting windmills
 
My understanding is that the Spirit works in conjunction with the Word.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." - Hebrews 4:12-13

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." - John 14:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." - John 16:7-11

Both the Spirit and the Word cut to the heart.
 
Dondi said:
My understanding is that the Spirit works in conjunction with the Word.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." - Hebrews 4:12-13

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." - John 14:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." - John 16:7-11

Both the Spirit and the Word cut to the heart.
Click to expand...

I'm of the mind that the Spirit [is] the Word of God. Scripture is not the Word of God, but rather the words of man inspired by God. But that's just my take....

Gk
 
Nick_A said:
True, but since you don't know how and prefer falling asleep, you need scripture as an awakening influence. Otherwise your world will only consist or fighting windmills
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How did "living and appreciating this moment" become "fighting windmills" Don Quixote?
 
To this Bible believing Christian;)

The Spirit interprets the Word for us and the Word is the known will of God.. that and prayer is how we commmunicate with Him..
prayer is how the Spirit reveals the unknown will of God.

The two go hand and hand.
 
I think we know God through scripture, tradition, reason and our personal experience of God. Any of those missing leaves us unbalanced and possibly off-course.

Just my 2 c
 
Dondi said:
My understanding is that the Spirit works in conjunction with the Word.
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I won't disagree with you Dondi. But people get caught up too easily in their interpretations of what the words mean and mistake them for the Spirit.

Buddhists can be the worst offenders. I am a member of a Buddhist forum where many posts consist of nit-picking over what this or that sutra "really" means when the real lesson of the Buddha was experience enlightenment directly.

It's an easy lesson to forget.
 
citizenzen said:
How did "living and appreciating this moment" become "fighting windmills" Don Quixote?
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Because it is what you do. You speak of appreciating the moment but in reality you are in battle with an imaginary opponent.
 
Nick_A said:
Because it is what you do. You speak of appreciating the moment but in reality you are in battle with an imaginary opponent.
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Oh! You simply must tell me.

Who am I battling? Who am I battling? Who am I battling?

Tell me! Tell me! Tell me!
 
citizenzen said:
Jeez! Tell me something I don't know!







(and the fact that you call me my own "imaginary" opponent comes close to some zen themes. Nicky, you dawg!)
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You know it but don't understand it so cannot value it. Consequently you continue to battle yourself. In order to become able to stop battling oneself, a person first has to become able to "Know thyself." Then perhaps one can get help from above so as to become themselves rather than continue fighting windmills.

"Do You wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself"
-ABBA EVAGRIUS, FOURTH CENTURY
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