Ott's esoterism

Discussion in 'Theology' started by Thomas, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Here Ott indicates his complete and utter failure to comprehends what Christ, His Mission, His Traditions and His Church, is all about.

    The one vital component of Christianity has eluded him: Christianity is not about individual salvation, its about salvation as such.

    "For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting."
    John 3:16

    "(God our Saviour) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times."
    1 Timothy 2:4-6

    Rarely has it been said better, or more memorably, than by John Donne (1572-1631):
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated ... As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness ... No man is an island, entire of itself ... any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

    Consider:
    "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me."
    John 17:21-23

    As long as man has his own salvation in mind, as long as he is not one with his neighbour, he is not a Christian.

    There is a story of Christ from the Sufi Tradition.
    Jesus was walking with His disciples when he came upon a holy man (an esoterist, perhaps?). "What are you doing?" Jesus asked him. "I have dedicated my life to God" the man said. "Who cares for all your needs?" Jesus asked. "My brother takes care of everything" the man replied. "Then your brother loves God more than you do," Jesus said, and continued on His way.

    St Paul offers this:
    "That Christ may dwell by faith in your hearts; that being rooted and founded in charity, You may be able to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and height, and depth: To know also the charity of Christ, which surpasseth all knowledge, that you may be filled unto all the fulness of God."
    Ephesians 3:17-19.

    Those 'dimensions' — breadth, length, height and depth — have given true Christian esoterists a treasury of unfathomably rich Scriptural exegesis to draw from.

    Meanwhile, the pseudo-esoterist, intent on nothing other than his own vainglory, is just as St Paul speaks of him, a 'sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal ... (in fact they are) ... nothing" (cf 1 Corinthians 13:1-2).

    Thomas
     
  2. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    Thomas

    From Ott:

    Jesus message wasn't to be specific in public but only in private where it could be understood. The whole idea of the church is to be an esoteric school where the union of the esoteric with the exoteric can take place. This was Paul's intent. Of course it doesn't exist now other then in private since the church lost its way.

    But who are "men?"

    I don't deny anyone. It is just completely clear that the world rejects the message. Its attachment to the Beast is so strong that it must deny the message. The question becomes if such a quality of attachment can be saved? I don't believe so.

    In Buddhism the idea would be that attachment will lead to a lower place on the wheel of samsara. The idea seems just as reasonable as salvation in Christianity where both require a quality of human awakening.

    But who is ones neighbor:


    Considering the human condition in the world today, a true Christian doesn't have many neighbors.

    If the world insists on being one way, and a person feels the calling of Christianity as Simone did, it makes no sense to be content with just being a cog in the wheel of the Beast but rather making the necessary efforts to become oneself: re-birth.

    What you are referring to here is demonic which is not the intent of Esoteric Christianity. The esoteric Christian seeks to serve in heaven by becoming himself rather then ruling in hell which vainglory helps one to do.
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The Greek for 'all men' is pas anthropos — as such it is a generic term, and means the human race.

    See above.

    You'd better ask a true Christian that, before you make such gross assumptions.

    Thomas
     
  4. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus spells out rather well what he means by neighbor. I would like to ask a true Christian. They are not easy to find.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The point still stands, which you continue to avoid, that your doctrine is founded on a false premise.

    The reason Jesus taught his close apostles was because His intention was that they should continue to build His Church after He had left them, as He told them (Acts 1 et seq).

    If Ott is in possession of some 'other' teaching of Jesus, it would be interesting to see it.

    Thomas
     

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