Thunderbolts of the gods.

shawn

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thunderbolts of the gods - Google Video

The above is a link to an hour long documentary about the new theory of the universe.
What prompted me to put this thread up was another thread with the absurd notions that there are plasma balls being ejected from the sun.
As Wil noted a little science is in order, so I figured, who better than the scientists who really understand this stuff.
I think I will just let this ride until people get a chance to watch the program and then we can discuss it.
I also think that these guys are really onto something.

The only tradition I am in favor of is that of evolving our ideas into better and more sensible things.
The rest of these sentimentally held onto notions can just quietly fade away into the dustbin of history.
 
The only tradition I am in favor of is that of evolving our ideas into better and more sensible things.
The rest of these sentimentally held onto notions can just quietly fade away into the dustbin of history.

I like that tradition.

And I found the video interesting. I will certainly follow this and opposing theories some more.

The one aspect of the video that I thought stretched credulity was trying to connect all the worlds myths and archetypes and to propose that these myths were shaped by ancient man experiencing incredible celestial phenomena that we no longer do.

Let's just say I'm a little skeptical about that one.

Cool ideas though. Thanks for sharing.
 
I'm with you on just that point. It was an intriguing idea sullied by a very shady and speculative tie in.

I am not sure about the science bit from the cometary impact data from Nasa but will be looking into it.
 
Last time I checked, conventional cosmological wisdom had the universe composed primarily of dark energy, followed by dark matter, and finally visible matter.

Couldn't Thunderbolt's electricity be dark energy?

So far my poking around has revealed that Electric Cosmology is an outsider looking for acceptance in mainstream science. I am quite willing to give this theory a chance to prove itself in that arena.
 
It has a certain sense to it, being that many of the strange things astronomers have looked at and the physicists had to invent concepts to explain are already understandable and demonstrable in the lab via the electric theory.
 
Last time I checked, conventional cosmological wisdom had the universe composed primarily of dark energy, followed by dark matter, and finally visible matter.

Couldn't Thunderbolt's electricity be dark energy?

So far my poking around has revealed that Electric Cosmology is an outsider looking for acceptance in mainstream science. I am quite willing to give this theory a chance to prove itself in that arena.

It has a certain sense to it, being that many of the strange things astronomers have looked at and the physicists had to invent concepts to explain are already understandable and demonstrable in the lab via the electric theory.

I agree it has a certain sense to it, a natural intuitive one at that. Yet the tie in to the "wheels" of mythology is perplexing. Even if they are right I see no necessity to include it in what is otherwise a very thought provoking hypothesis.

As an aside, has anyone come across a map of galactic clusters overlayed onto the map of cosmic microwave background maps? Been hunting for one for a while and would be interesting applied to this too.
 
As an aside, has anyone come across a map of galactic clusters overlayed onto the map of cosmic microwave background maps? Been hunting for one for a while and would be interesting applied to this too.

According to my small amount of research, the variance of temperature in cosmic background radiation is supported by the gravitational model but not the electric.
 
Gravity is still a function in the electric model/version, it doesn't disappear, there is just a better explanation for why it is.
The tie in to mythology makes a sort of sense if you believe in the idea of catastrophism and the speculation that we are not the first group of people to reach a technological level.
Which, by the way, is still a long way from any kind of sophistication, as we are still using chemical fuels and are poisoning ourselves with our radioactive boilers.
 
Found this interesting bit on certain variable stars. Now looking for how the theory explains supernova events. There is also a bit earlier in the article that mentions 'cold' fusion.

From: Stellar evolution in the electric universe

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+0]Examples That Falsify (Disprove) The Accepted Stellar Evolution Process[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+0]FG Sagittae[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The star FG Sagittae breaks all the rules of accepted stellar evolution. FG Sagittae has changed from blue to yellow since 1955! It, quite recently, has taken a deep dive in luminosity. FG Sagittae, is the central star of the planetary nebula (nova remnant?) He 1-5. It is a unique object in the sense that for this star we have direct evidence of stellar evolution but in a time scale comparable with the human lifetime. [CCD Astronomy, Summer 1996, p.40.][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Around 1900 FG Sge was an inconspicuous hot star (T = 50,000 K) of magnitude 13. During the next 60 years it cooled to about 8000 K and brightened in the visual region to magnitude 9, as its radiation shifted from the far-UV to the visual region. Around 1970 a whole new bunch of spectral lines appeared due to elements such as Sr, Y, Zr, Ba and rare earths. .... The star cooled further in the 1970s and 80s and then all of a sudden in 1992 its magnitude dropped to 14. Further drops occurred from 1992 to 1996 with a very deep minimum near magnitude 16 in June of 1996." [Italics added][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]So, after abruptly brightening by four magnitudes, it has dropped seven magnitudes. From the end of the last century FG Sagittae has moved across the HR diagram changing from a normal hot giant to a "late spectral type" (cool) star with marked changes in its surface chemical composition. Its present surface temperature is in the range of 4000K. This is not the kind of slow stellar 'evolution' mainstream astrophysicists preach.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]And FG Sagittae is a binary pair![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The official wording was, "In 1995 FG Sge changed in brightness in a quite sporadic manner from V~10.5 to ~13.0 according to the data by Hungarian Astronomical Association-Variable Star Section. During the spectral observations on 9/10 and 10/11 August, FG Sge was very faint (HAA-VSS data: V~12.5-13.0, according to Variable Stars Observers' League of Japan: ~13.3) and therefore erroneously the visual companion 8'' apart from FG Sge was actually observed. This is probably the first high resolution spectrum of the companion ever obtained. The spectrum turned out to correspond to a quite normal giant with the spectral type around K0."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Is FG Sagittae an example of the binary fissioning (caused by electrical stress) that was described above? It seems to have all the basic characteristics: nova-like brightening followed by loss of luminosity and loss of temperature - moving to a different spectral type with marked changes in its surface chemical composition, discovery of a binary companion, and the entire systems lies within a nebulous nova remnant.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+0]Two More Examples That Falsify the Accepted Stellar Evolution Process[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Virginia Trimble, professor of physics at the University of California, Irvine, and visiting professor of astronomy at the University of Maryland, has said recently:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"We don't often see stars change their spectral types in a human lifetime. Thus, FG Sagittae, which brightened, cooled from about BO to K, and added lines of carbon, barium, and other elements to its spectrum in the century after 1890 was long seemingly unique. The standard interpretation has been that it experienced its very last flash of helium shell burning (the products are carbon and oxygen) and was about to become an R Coronea Borealis variable. These are carbon-rich stars that fade suddenly and unpredictably (which FG Sge started doing a couple of years ago) and that have hydrogen-depleted atmospheres (which FG Sge has just developed). In addition, the "galloping giant" is no longer alone. Examination of old images and spectrograms reveal that V 605 Aquilae, studied by Knut Lundmark in the 1920's was a similar sort of beast, though it is now very faint And the latest recruit is V 4334 Sagittarii, better known as Sakurai's object, for its 1994 discoverer. It, too, changed both spectral type and surface composition very rapidly, and is now hydrogen-poor and carbon-rich, and well on its way to becoming the century's third new R CrB star."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+0]And Yet A Fourth Example - V838 Monocerotis[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]On October 2, 2002, NASA's Astronomy Picture of the Day (APOD) announced what is to them another "mystery star".[/SIZE][/FONT] Click here for the official announcement. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The official "explanation" reads, in part:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"V838 Mon was discovered to be in outburst in January of this year. Initially thought to be a familiar type of classical nova, astronomers quickly realized that instead, V838 Mon may be a totally new addition to the astronomical zoo. Observations indicate that the erupting star transformed itself [/SIZE]over a period of months[SIZE=-1] from a small under-luminous star a little hotter than the Sun, to a highly-luminous, cool supergiant star undergoing rapid and complex brightness changes[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] The transformation defies the conventional understanding of stellar life cycles. A most notable feature of V838 Mon is the "expanding" nebula which now appears to surround it." [Ital and emphasis added.][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]So now there are at least four prime examples of stars that do not evolve according to the accepted thermonuclear model of how stars are powered. These are stars that falsify the conventional understanding of stellar life cycles. All of them act in a manner predicted by the Electric Star hypothesis.[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
I have assumed that stars work as nodes which are mere conduits for the power that is the universe.
just like the zero point experiments which show that power is all around, we are just learning how to see it, and quantify it and hopefully extract it in useful quantities eventually, not just small lab experiments.

Tesla was onto something big when he developed his wireless transmission system for energy, (unfortunately funding was terminated as the backer couldn't turn a buck that way and politically it is not in the doctrine to empower people. Control and monitor them yes, empower, no).

The electric model would explain why our core is still molten after billions of years, as it is like an element in a stove.
 
On my bus commute to work this morning I noticed how plant forms were shaped similarly to the "electrical" galactic forms shown in the video.

While I'm not yet a believer, I do think this theory has potential.

Could someone smarter than me get to work on this?

I need more data!

Hopefully something a child can understand.
 
On my bus commute to work this morning I noticed how plant forms were shaped similarly to the "electrical" galactic forms shown in the video.

While I'm not yet a believer, I do think this theory has potential.

Could someone smarter than me get to work on this?

I need more data!

Hopefully something a child can understand.

It does bare an uncanny resemblance to fractal geometry. It also goes some way to providing explanation for some serious anomalies in the standard inflationary model and in the difficulties of reconciling relativity with quantum theory. As this article hints at :
Can fractals make sense of the quantum world? - physics-math - 30 March 2009 - New Scientist
"... the black hole can be described completely using just three quantities - its mass, angular momentum and electric charge."

This really has piqued my interest.... something about it seems to make sense of and link many till now separate bits of information. I'l be running with it for a while I think.
 
Look forward to hearing what you dig up Tao.

Myself, I am a stone mason, so I am really only an armchair scientist.
But this fascinates me as well as it does explain things which before made little sense.

Professional scientists are rather like lawyers in that they have this compulsion to take something and instead of giving a concise and clear, simple explanation, they can't help but complexify and obfuscate the matter, maybe they feel it protects their job security or something.
 
Hey, I'm just a graphic/web designer.

But I've always loved science.

I'd cut scientists a little slack. They're doing the best the can with the tools they have. And they don't mind correcting past mistakes.

I ran across this thread. We're not the only ones talking about this...

Supernovas are Bogus -- "Stars don't Explode!"
 
really enjoyed that video; but always thought electro-magnetism was part of the cosmological set up, gravity being so weak; isnt background radiation as part of this?:confused: interesting in thinking saturn may have been the primeval sun, certainly was thought to be the outer most planet [with 28/29 year cycle which ties in with the jewish sun/saturn thread here] by the ancient astrologers.
 
Food for thought:
Imagine a pan-solar system wide discharges of plasma - not just involving the sun, but spanning planets. This was suggested by some unusual images from the STEREO spacecraft while monitoring Jupiter . Here are additional insight from the Thunderbolts group who have been investigating the electric universe concepts and have discovered evidence for the earth's orbit to have been very different from present day.

The pictures at the bottom look amazingly like a weld spot.

Jebel Arkenu


Jebel Arkenu

Apr 13, 2009

Some of the world's most unusual geography can be found across North Africa. Could it have been created by massive electric discharges in the recent past?

The Libyan Desert is an empty wasteland and can support no human habitation. The central portion is exceptionally arid, where it rains less than once in thirty years. It is so dry and barren that NASA chose it as an experimental base of operations for the Viking lander project, since they considered it to most closely resemble the conditions on Mars. There are no roads or tracks, just the great open void.

Previous Thunderbolts Picture of the Day articles have described the strange landscapes across the African continent, as well as their anomalous attributes. Giant craters, deep cracks in the Earth, and lightning-like Lichtenberg figures etched into the terrain all point to events that do not lend themselves to uniformitarian explanations.

In 1932, British surveyor Patrick Clayton was the first European to explore the area where the borders of Egypt, Libya, and Sudan meet. As he crossed the Great Sand Sea, he ran over something that made crunching noises under his wheels. It turned out to be silica glass.

The Geological Society of Egypt invited L.J. Spencer, a mineral expert from the British Museum, to visit the site in 1934. His expedition spent nine days collecting glass. During that time, he found that it existed in a limited area: 130 kilometers north-to-south and 53 kilometers east-to-west. However, it has since been determined that the glass can be found in two areas, one of which is oval-shaped, and the other a circular ring 21 kilometers in diameter. Strangely, the center of the ring contains no glass.

Kebira Crater, a giant stone circle in the Great Sand Sea over thirty kilometers in diameter, has been theorized to be the source for the "desert glass" that has baffled scientists for many years. In fact, the glass caused much confusion among archaeologists when Tutankhamon's tomb was discovered.

The pectoral jewel adorning his sarcophagus contained a large piece of the greenish-yellow desert glass. The fused silica bauble was of such purity that modern glassmakers are not capable of creating it. What secret arts did the ancient Egyptians possess that enabled them to exceed the abilities of modern technicians?

When Kebira Crater was discovered, a hypothetical source for the glass came to light. As a Picture of the Day article from that time speculated, the crater might have been formed by an electric arc that impacted the desert with such power that the sands were fused into glass.

Other ring-shaped and dome-like structures rise out of flat, wind-swept plains in areas that can be reached only with extreme difficulty. As has been pointed-out in the past, most of these formations exhibit upraised, sharply delineated rims, knife-edged ridges, flat bottoms, and wildly brachiated channels running through them or covering the surrounding countryside like thousands of large rivers that have turned to dust.

One of the more surprising aspects of the Jebel Uweinat uplift region, in which Jebel Arkenu can be found, is how closely it resembles the Western Desert in the United States. One example of that similarity is Shiprock, New Mexico. Shiprock is reputed to be a pluton of basalt that hardened deep down below the surface where it solidified. Eons of time passed while the surrounding sedimentary rock was blown away by the wind, revealing the pointed monolith. Lava dikes extend outward at 120 degree angles from the peak for several kilometers.

The same jagged tops, the same "lava dikes" with extremely narrow cross-sections, and the same flat-topped mesas with solid forty-five degree "shoulders" are found in the Sahara.

Of course, explanations that describe both features are limited to vulcanism, weathering, meteors striking the surface, or subsurface plutons of basaltic lava that hardened beneath the ground and were subsequently revealed when the softer sedimentary layers were eroded from around them. There are some observations that do not seem to fit with the millions of years that geological gradualism requires.

Erosion is a blurring and rounding process. Conical mountain peaks are said to slowly reduce into flattened mounds and finally wear down to the level of the plains out of which they rose. Steep, vertical walls are supposed to gradually become shallow slopes, and v-shaped river valleys must give way to meandering flood plains. If the mesas, gullies, pillars, spikes, and ridges have all been exposed to wind and rain for millions of years, why are they still so sharp, steep and well-defined?

Jebel Arkenu itself is notable for its spiral-shaped interior. There are no known natural forces other than spinning electric vortices that can excavate spiral forms with uplifted central peaks. Many of those are found on the Moon and others have been observed on Mars. Since the primary thesis put forward by Electric Universe adherents is that a cataclysmic encounter with some other electrically charged body took place less than 10,000 years ago, or perhaps sooner, then the "fresh" appearance and lack of erosion is explainable.

It is time for another perspective on geology. There are some geologists who are beginning to question the slow-motion theories that dominate the sciences today. Since planetary scientists have witnessed comet fragments colliding with Jupiter, vast ionized plumes erupting from Io, and volcanoes spitting lightning, it seems reasonable to insist that theories involving fast acting forces of change be considered along with those that require millions of years.

Written by Stephen Smith from an idea submitted by Klaas Geertsma

///

Apr. 24, 2006
Libya's Kebira Crater

A huge crater in the Sahara desert, said to be the largest one ever found in the region, and dwarfing Arizona's "Meteor Crater", poses new questions for geologists. Is the crater related to the origins of the mysterious "desert glass" in the region?
Scientists suggest that a meteorite impact millions of years ago is the cause of the giant crater imaged above. Recently discovered in satellite images of the area, the crater lies in Egypt's western desert. It is some 19 miles (31kilometers) wide and is said to be the impact site of a meteoric intruder perhaps three-fourths of a mile (1.2 kilometers) in diameter. The crater itself is more than 25 times the size of Arizona's famous Meteor Crater. But over time, erosion by wind and water largely obscured the ancient scar.

One intriguing aspect of the discovery is its close association with a mysterious field of yellow-green glass, broken into large chunks, littering the dunes in the Great Sand Sea of southwestern Egypt.

The first report of the yellow-green “desert glass” came from Patrick Clayton in 1932, following his excursion through the Saad Plateau near the Kebira Crater site. At the time, the origin of the glass was unknown: There was no evidence of geological forces that could have melted the silica sand into glass. With Kebira’s discovery, a hypothetical source for the glass is now available.

Geologists speculate that the glass originated as ejecta from the Kebira impact. It is thought that the meteor strike imparted so much energy to the surrounding silica sand that it was melted and then explosively hurled outward, solidifying and fracturing into shards, as depicted here.

Although the glass is most likely a result of Kebira, the method by which it was created is open to question.

1. The glass is too pure – some of the purest natural silica glass ever found. If the glass shards are tektites (melted slag from volcanoes or meteor impacts), they should include the presence of other minerals.

2. The glass does exhibit small internal bubbles that include other elements. One of those elements is iridium, the presence of which indicates an extra-terrestrial origin, according to prevailing theories (see Alvarez, Luis W., et al. "Extraterrestrial Cause for the Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction: Experimental Results and Theoretical Interpretation." Science 208 (1980) 1095-1108). However, the glass reveals no evidence of other minerals found in the region, such as halite and alumina.

3. Another area where this type of glass may be found is atomic test sites.

If the explosion of a solid object, like a meteor, did not form the glass, then there remains one other method available—an enormous electrical discharge. The glass shards, then, are the remains of large fulgurites.

Fulgurites are created when bolts of lightning strike refractory minerals in the earth, instantaneously smelting the minerals into other forms, such as cristobalite. The yellow-green glass does, in fact, contain cristobalite inclusions, along with the iridium and other platinum family elements.

If one grants the power of a lightning bolt large enough to form an impact site some 19 miles in diameter, then additional possibilities must also be considered. Electrical theorists have long claimed that highly energetic electric discharge transmutes elements—a process that is going on all the time on the surface of stars, they contend. The same thing is implied on Jupiter's moon Io, where electric discharge appears to be continuously transmuting oxygen from water ice into sulfur. (The association of energetic lightning strikes with a "sulfurous stench" is much more than an old wives' tale, the electrical theorists say).

Is the Kebira site the scar of a cosmic thunderbolt? If so, new directions of investigation will be essential.

///
 

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