Venus of Hohle Fels

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by iBrian, May 17, 2009.

  1. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    8
    Interesting to see how far back human art is being pushed back:
    BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | German 'Venus' may be oldest yet

    Also interesting to see the typical focus on female fertility, a feature that has been strong right through the near ancient times - a sign of strong matriarchal beliefs, though?
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
    I noticed the article mentioned the Tan-Tan Venus and Berekat-Ram Venus, and said that some claim dates over a hundred thousand years back (Homo Erectus) for these. I don't think they are quite that old by the sources I've read, but they are pretty ancient. I understand the Ostrich egg shell beads found in the Blombos Cave in South Africa to be the oldest, fairly agreed to be between 80-100 thousand years old. I think the distinction might be made between representational art like the Venuses, and decorative art like the beads.

    From the article: It's pretty difficult to make a claim like this when looking at the Venus of Willendorf or the Lowenmensch. Some of the Venus figures do require a bit of imagination, but if I recall correctly there is evidence of tool marks on the ivory and not just an accidental process.

    While I agree there seems to be an abundance of female figures, there are also phallic male figures both drawn and sculpted, so I think the gamut of recreational or generational beliefs are covered. Odds are pretty good that the typical cave dwelling tribal community was "matriarchal" in composition, but I don't think we should read into that any more than what that essentially implies. These were peoples who of necessity were very close to the rhythms of nature out of necessity, and one can make an equally strong argument that they were sky watchers familiar with the constellations and planets as they moved across the sky as the seasons progressed. I think both ways of being "in tune" were at play. Momma still served as the primary influence to every child, and Poppa still hunted and warred and let blood.

    Thanks for this Brian.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  3. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rather curious, is it not, that the oldest piece of art turns out to be a bit of porn...hmmm.
     
  4. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
    Maybe it's just advertising for the world's oldest profession? :D
     
  5. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
  6. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    8
  7. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    8
    Apologies, yes - I should have made the distinction between art and depiction of human form. :)

    Follows very similar features to later palaeolithic and neolithic pieces - all busom and buttocks with no real facial depiction.
     
  8. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
    There's a second page to that album with a few more Venus figures...and a whole 'nother album with 2 pages of cave paintings...if you might be interested.
     
  9. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
  10. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,715
    Likes Received:
    217
    Yes, which to me is quite curious. At least by the time of Willendorf, the cave paintings of animals were very realistic, so the ability of human artists to make accurate renditions was there. But for some reason, and it seems pretty universal at this point, these talented artists chose deliberately to not accurately depict humans. Humans are either grossly exaggerated, like the Venuses, or they are stick figures. The Dead Man at Lascaux is a prime example.

    The Fumane Sorceror is the lone enigma, but as the article pointed out, it is a vague guess that is what it represents at all. I am inclined to agree it is a depiction of a shaman, but there is a wide margin of uncertainty that goes with that interpretation.
     

Share This Page