eyewitness accounts

Joedjr

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Hi everyone,
After posting a question in Judaism, I started to wonder if any of the world's major religions have a credible eyewitness account outside their own tradition. This would be some kind of record of more than one or two lines, and have no question as to authenticity.
Any leads?

thanks
Joe
 

17th Angel

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Joe.....

*closes eyes counts to 10*

Define Credible eyewitness accounts? An account of what? Authenticity of?

I am gonna go out on one, and assume.... This is evidence/accounts of a god? But in favour of anothers religion......... Rather than their own religion?..... Am I close?

I am guessing there is plenty of people out there, that in their own -personal- opinions and thoughts of what exactly is deemed credible.... Have done this... Well they obviously become converts don't they?

Examples.... How JESUS Convert me from Islam to Christainity??? This ex Muslim claims jesus converted him....

You also have for example groups such as (you mentioned Judaism) Jews for jesus.. Jews For Jesus UK Again they must have some reasons and accounts they deem credible to move over...

Not that I have listened... Too late at night.. (in bed with laptop lol) but here is a video YouTube - Converting from Islam to Judaism of a muslim explaining his conversion to Judaism... Perhaps this would be interesting to see why he made such a choice... *shrugs*
 

Jean freeman

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Just a passing thought, Jesus is mentioned a hundred times in the Qu'oran perhaps this leads to common ground.
 

Joedjr

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Define Credible eyewitness accounts? An account of what? Authenticity of?
Hi Alex/17th
In "Judaism", Postmaster asked if there was a record of Jesus anywhere in the Talmud, which there isn't. Elsewhere a question was asked, that in Egyptian history if there is an account of a foreign people residing in their land for a period of time, again the answer was no.
Christianity has no history outside of itself. There are a few lines in the writings of Josephus but these are debated not to be authentic. I think that if someone was making the blind see, curing the sick and raising the dead it would have been the big news of the day as it would be today.

Just a passing thought, Jesus is mentioned a hundred times in the Qu'oran perhaps this leads to common ground.
Hi Jean,
I'm not sure this would be an eyewitness type of history.

So how about some of the other religions:Hinduism, Buddhism, Baha'i

Joe
 

17th Angel

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OOOOOOOOOH, ok I see where you're going with it now! ok;

Jean is right, jesus gets mentioned in the Quran quite a bit also with islam, he is mentioned in the Ahmadiyyas....... His birth and so on and so forth alike the bible. Only things that change I believe is his role.... In Quran he doesn't become a glory seeker..

What of Hinduism?

BHavishya Maha Purana mentions jesus a few times. Buddhism he is also mentioned... lol but I forgets what books :/ lol... Some even claimed the buddha "came" from jesus..... A bloke from Rome (paganism) Called Apollonius.... May be worth looking him up on wiki or something, he did pretty much everything jesus did... Raised dead, healed sick had "disciples" and so on and so forth... *yawns* He even died and was raised from death!!! HALLELUjAH!

---EDIT---
*slaps his own wrist!!*
How could I forget!! Also... As all religions and stories and legends and blah blah blah all come from Greek mythology lol..... Helios.... Is jesus.... It's just... Any "eye witness accounts" you find will simply be chinese whispers of old.
 

Tao_Equus

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Sorry I cannot offer specific reference but from my perusal of myth over the years there are certain common themes that keep cropping up. Like floods and plagues. Yet I would suggest that after millennia of periodic burnings, purges and rewrites you are going to find nothing that proves anything. Where you do find common themes a little common sense usually sees that they are common because they are the type of event that is repeated. Earthquakes, meteorites, droughts, famines, plagues and the likes are a part of life in all places/times.
 

Jean freeman

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History seems to go in circles constantly.I personally find it interesting to explore any factual evidence of exsistance of Biblical figures,although I am not a closet verificationest, I believe in the exsistence of a greater power.
 

seattlegal

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Hi Alex/17th
In "Judaism", Postmaster asked if there was a record of Jesus anywhere in the Talmud, which there isn't. Elsewhere a question was asked, that in Egyptian history if there is an account of a foreign people residing in their land for a period of time, again the answer was no.
Who Were the Hyksos
Foreigners (shepherd kings) residing in lower Egypt, driven out of Egypt at the beginning of the "New Kingdom" archeological period by its first king? Lots of archeological evidence and Egyptian papyrus that mention these foreign kings. I'd say that fits.
Christianity has no history outside of itself. There are a few lines in the writings of Josephus but these are debated not to be authentic. I think that if someone was making the blind see, curing the sick and raising the dead it would have been the big news of the day as it would be today.
There are some documents whose authenticity are questioned, such as The St Issa Scroll translated by Notovitch.
There are also non-Abrahamic traditions who were actually waiting for God to come to earth and live as a human being.
 

Tao_Equus

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History seems to go in circles constantly.I personally find it interesting to explore any factual evidence of exsistance of Biblical figures,although I am not a closet verificationest, I believe in the exsistence of a greater power.
Me too. It is why I always buy Duracell!! :)
 

TealLeaf

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Hi everyone,
After posting a question in Judaism, I started to wonder if any of the world's major religions have a credible eyewitness account outside their own tradition. This would be some kind of record of more than one or two lines, and have no question as to authenticity.
Any leads?

thanks
Joe

It doesn't matter because some people have no qualms about lying. Even worse some people have no qualms about establishing elaborate ruses.

I think the best guiding principle here is that if it doesn't jive with everything else you know about the Universe it probably isn't true or genuine.
 

Joedjr

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Who Were the Hyksos
Foreigners (shepherd kings) residing in lower Egypt, driven out of Egypt at the beginning of the "New Kingdom" archeological period by its first king? Lots of archeological evidence and Egyptian papyrus that mention these foreign kings. I'd say that fits.

There are some documents whose authenticity are questioned, such as The St Issa Scroll translated by Notovitch.
There are also non-Abrahamic traditions who were actually waiting for God to come to earth and live as a human being.
Thanks SG for the links. I have a copy of "The unknown life of Jesus Christ" By Notovitch. It was an interesting read, but somewhat like the "Book of Mormons", I found not enough supporting evidence for it to slide easily into the believable part of my brain.
Joe
 

seattlegal

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Thanks SG for the links. I have a copy of "The unknown life of Jesus Christ" By Notovitch. It was an interesting read, but somewhat like the "Book of Mormons", I found not enough supporting evidence for it to slide easily into the believable part of my brain.
Joe
I was of the same opinion, until I heard the Dalai Lama once say, "We own your Jesus." Hearing that really made me wonder.

As for the Hyksos, they were definitely in Egypt. Precisely identifying them might be problematic, however. They seem to be rather ethnically diverse. However, Exodus 12:38 mentions that an ethnically diverse crowd left along with the Israelites on the Exodus.
 

Avi

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As for the Hyksos, they were definitely in Egypt. Precisely identifying them might be problematic, however. They seem to be rather ethnically diverse. However, Exodus 12:38 mentions that an ethnically diverse crowd left along with the Israelites on the Exodus.

SG, it seems that this notion came from Josephus:

the 1st-century CE historian Josephus Flavius debates the synchronism between the Biblical account of the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, and two Exodus-like events that the Egyptian historian Manetho apparently mentions. It is difficult to distinguish between what Manetho himself recounted, and how Josephus or Apion interpret him.
Josephus identifies the Israelite Exodus with the first exodus mentioned by Manetho, when some 480,000 Hyksos "shepherd kings" (also referred to as just 'shepherds', as 'kings' and as 'captive shepherds' in his discussion of Manetho) left Egypt for Jerusalem.[24] The mention of "Hyksos" identifies this first exodus with the Hyksos period (16th century BCE).

Ref 24: Josephus, Flavius, Against Apion, 1:86–90.

Hyksos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And as you know, Josephus was an apologist and of questionable accuracy.

Can you provide another more reliable reference to support your questionable conjecture ??
 

seattlegal

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SG, it seems that this notion came from Josephus:



And as you know, Josephus was an apologist and of questionable accuracy.

Can you provide another more reliable reference to support your questionable conjecture ??
You can put "Second Intermediate Period of Egypt" or "15th Dynasty Egypt" into your search engine and find plenty of information. Here's just one link that came up for "Second Intermediate Period of Egypt":
The Ancient Egypt Site
Here's a google book that came up:
The political situation in Egypt During the Second Intermediate Period... - Google Books

Here's a result that came up for "15th Dynasty Egypt"
Egyptvoyager.com: Egyptian History

Here's a translation of a portion of the [SIZE=-1]Papyrus Sallier I, ca. 1274 BCE for your consideration.
[/SIZE]
 
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