China incline USA decline?

[coberst]

China incline USA decline?

America now has an open society but few Americans have the Critical Thinking skills and intellectual sophistication required to maintain that status. The question becomes: "can a democracy survive in a world where technology is driving change at a very rapid pace?” Darwin informs us that if a species cannot adapt to its changing environment that species will soon become toast.

I suspect that China represents an example of how such a fact plays out. China, an authoritarian form of capitalism, is likely destined to become the dominant power in the 21st century because an authoritarian system can better adapt to a rapidly changing world. America displays a nation unable to quickly adapt to a rapidly changing world.

Karl Popper argues, in his book The Open Society and Its Enemies, that all ideology shares a common characteristic; a belief in infallibility.

The concept Popper illustrates in this book sounds much like the concept of a liberal democracy but his concept is more epistemological than political. It is based upon our imperfect comprehension of reality more than our structure of society. Such infallibility is an impossibility, which leads such ideological practitioners to use force to substantiate their views and such repression brings about a closed society.

Popper proposed that the open society is constructed on the recognition that our comprehension of reality is not perfect—there is realty beyond our comprehension and our will cannot compensate for that lack of comprehension. Even though the will of the power structure can manipulate the opinions of the citizens sooner or later reality will defeat the will. Truth does matter and success will not always override truth—truth being reality.

 

[citizenzen]

The U.S. has enjoyed a remarkably short reign as the world's super power. The U.S.'s decline came about due to its militaristic ways. Instead of spending on social needs, we chose to build an obscenely large standing army; exactly what our Founding Fathers warned against.

Now we've spent trillions with little to show for it. On top of that we still need to address our crumbling infrastructure and social services that lag behind most of the western industrial world.

Here's just one example of how bad it is...

The University of California system (including Berkeley, UCLA, Davis, et al) raised student fees another 32% for next year. It will cost over $10,000 annually to attend these public universities. That does not include the costs for room, board, and books, which can add another $6,000 to the price of a college education.

How much does it cost to get a public college education overseas? Just curious.

 

[17th Angel]

Oxford University: In silly monopoly money:

Tuition $29,600 Fees $462 Room $5,786 Board $2,710 Books/Supplies $1,000 Travel/Incidentals $1,800 Total $41,358

 

[Avi]

Here's just one example of how bad it is...

The University of California system (including Berkeley, UCLA, Davis, et al) raised student fees another 32% for next year. It will cost over $10,000 annually to attend these public universities. That does not include the costs for room, board, and books, which can add another $6,000 to the price of a college education.

How much does it cost to get a public college education overseas? Just curious.

$16,000 to attend a UC school, best buy in the world !!

In other countries it is much more difficult and competative to get accepted into excellent colleges.

 

[citizenzen]

$16,000 to attend a UC school, best buy in the world !!

In other countries it is much more difficult and competative to get accepted into excellent colleges.

I'm not sure you're correct on that. My conditions were western industrialized nations and public universities. I look forward to hearing more examples from our friends overseas.

BTW, $16,000 is for one year, or $64,000 for four years. That's a nice debt to saddle a young adult entering the workplace, or parents hoping to send the children through college.

I did check, and Oxford is a public university.

 

[citizenzen]

Oxford University: In silly monopoly money:

Tuition $29,600 Fees $462 Room $5,786 Board $2,710 Books/Supplies $1,000 Travel/Incidentals $1,800 Total $41,358

Is that $41,358 per year?

 

[Avi]

Is that $41,358 per year?

CZ, do you know the cost of typical out-of-state colleges for private or state colleges (in which students are out-of-state) ?

I have become quite familiar with this for a couple of reasons.

If you are not, I think you are in for a little shock !

 

[nativeastral]

I'm not sure you're correct on that. My conditions were western industrialized nations and public universities. I look forward to hearing more examples from our friends overseas.

BTW, $16,000 is for one year, or $64,000 for four years. That's a nice debt to saddle a young adult entering the workplace, or parents hoping to send the children through college.

I did check, and Oxford is a public university.

Aberdeen University tuition fees are £1,775 rising to just below £3,000 for medical students and they reckon another £6,000 for living costs above that. We apply to an agency [Scottish Govt] to cover those costs and to get a loan for living costs, so straddling you with debts of up to £15,000 when you start work [if you get a job! but the rates are low]. It used to be a grant. Of course you only get help if your parents are on low income or if you are individually eligible.

The University has had to streamline and depends on overseas money.

 

[citizenzen]

CZ, do you know the cost of typical out-of-state colleges for private or state colleges (in which students are out-of-state) ?

I have become quite familiar with this for a couple of reasons.

If you are not, I think you are in for a little shock !

Actually I am at least somewhat familiar with this. I work at a university that is part of the WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange), a program meant to reduce the cost for out-of-state students.

I remember the promise of the California State University system — back in the day when I was in college — that California residents could receive a quality, low-cost education... a promise that has fallen by the wayside these past dozen or so years.

 

[citizenzen]

Aberdeen University tuition fees are £1,775 rising to just below £3,000 for medical students and they reckon another £6,000 for living costs above that. We apply to an agency [Scottish Govt] to cover those costs and to get a loan for living costs, so straddling you with debts of up to £15,000 when you start work...

Somewhere around $25,000 or 40% of the cost I quoted for a University of California education.

 

[Dream]

It could be a decline, or it could just be temporary. After all, the great depression was only 90 years ago, and things have gone up & down. I remember reading in about France, when it was the superpower in Europe, how it had similar ups and downs.

 

[Dogbrain]

In the 1930s, all the cool kids were posturing over how liberal democracy was dead, and the only thing left to do was bury the corpse. The cool kids looked to "strong leaders" to get things done, and were all very impressed at what an Austrian pipsqueak and an Italian blowhard were up to.

It is perenially fashionable to snort at some alleged moribund status for liberal democracy, but its detractors conveniently pretend not to know that its weaknesses are also its strengths. Liberal democracy, for example, does not routinely have "great leaders" with "strong vision" year in and year out. But that means that it also doesn't fall apart merely for lacking such "great leaders". Liberal democracy permits its "unwashed masses" a voice, which brings many a headache to those who would sniff and raise their noses about how a society "should" be, but it also means that it gives those "unwashed masses" a voice, which means they are more likely to talk--however crudely and brutishly--than to nurse resentments and explode in mass rebellion.

"The worst form of slavery is that which is called Caesarism, or the choice of some bold or brilliant man as despot because he is suitable. For that means that men choose a representative, not because he represents them, but because he does not. Men trust an ordinary man... because they are themselves ordinary men and understand him. Men trust an ordinary man because they trust themselves. But men trust a great man because they do not trust themselves. And hence the worship of great men always appears in times of weakness and cowardice; we never hear of great men until the time when all other men are small."

 

[Avi]

Actually I am at least somewhat familiar with this. I work at a university that is part of the WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange), a program meant to reduce the cost for out-of-state students.

Oh, a university Prof., no wonder you argue so much D) !!

 

[citizenzen]

Oh, a university Prof., no wonder you argue so much D) !!

WRONG!

Graphic/web designer. Art school drop-out.

Yet, still able to run circles around you scholarly types.

It's a calling.

 

[Avi]

Yet, still able to run circles around you scholarly types.

I'm a garden variety engineer, remember Choo Choo Charlie !

 

[citizenzen]

I'm a garden variety engineer, remember Choo Choo Charlie !

Well, no wonder it's been so easy.

 

[Dream]

In the 1930s, all the cool kids were posturing over how liberal democracy was dead, and the only thing left to do was bury the corpse. The cool kids looked to "strong leaders" to get things done, and were all very impressed at what an Austrian pipsqueak and an Italian blowhard were up to.

Thats scary dogbrain. It reminds of me what is going on in some places in South American and Africa. Chavez works hard to set himself apart from being a common man.

 

[citizenzen]

Thats scary dogbrain. It reminds of me what is going on in some places in South American and Africa. Chavez works hard to set himself apart from being a common man.

Dude. Where were you the previous eight years? Obviously not livin' in the U.S.A.

 

[17th Angel]

I can't do this dollar thing lol. Here check it. This is the most recent costings.

Cost of study - University of Oxford

Dream lol Chavez is my Uncle.

 

[Dream]

Dude. Where were you the previous eight years? Obviously not livin' in the U.S.A.

I guess you are talking about our president. I watched him get booed out of office on TV. I know one of the people that did the boo-ing, and they had no fear of being harmed for it. Now that president is no longer in power and everyone continues to be aware of his unpopularity. I see no parallel between him and Chavez. What Dogbrain said about the 1930's ought to ring some bells. This president actually has founded a holiday for himself, and he's not even dead yet!

Have you ever heard of Cesar Chavez Day? It is a holiday founded in 2001 created to advance the values and legacy of Cesar Chavez. USA students in some counties made murals that focused on the values of Cesar Chavez in exchange for grants for the implementation of service learning projects with a Chavez focus.
Cesar Chavez Leadership and Service Initiative | TEAMS/AmeriCorps Fellowship Program

Top that one Zen, then I'll see if I can top yours.

Dream lol Chavez is my Uncle.

Wow. What does your uncle eat for breakfast?