China incline USA decline?

[citizenzen]

I see no parallel between him and Chavez.

I was responding to this line (I'm sorry I didn't quote it in my post. My bad.)

The cool kids looked to "strong leaders" to get things done...

I think that's what G. W. Bush was, someone who acted through strength and might and one who didn't care who he ran over to forward "American interests". The real blame rests on the people who looked to that kind of leadership as a solution. I thinks it's a product of fear and that isn't "cool" in my book.

Have you ever heard of Cesar Chavez Day? It is a holiday founded in 2001 created to advance the values and legacy of Cesar Chavez.

I live in California. I get Cesar Chavez Day off every year. Plus I'm old enough to remember when he led the United Farm Workers in their effort to improve working conditions for the migrant workers who help to keep us fat and happy.

But you were talking about Hugo Chavez, the President of Venezuela. Is there a connection between Chavez's?

 

[Dream]

Oh, looks like I've mistaken them both as the same person, president of Venezuela. I guess that the article I linked is actually unrelated to the topic.

 

[Dream]

I was responding to this line (I'm sorry I didn't quote it in my post. My bad.)

The cool kids looked to "strong leaders" to get things done...

I think that's what G. W. Bush was, someone who acted through strength and might and one who didn't care who he ran over to forward "American interests". The real blame rests on the people who looked to that kind of leadership as a solution. I thinks it's a product of fear and that isn't "cool" in my book.

I was not too happy about the provisions of the Patriot act, either. It has Big Brother all over it. It is one possible pillar in a future dictator's government.

 

[Saltmeister]

"The worst form of slavery is that which is called Caesarism, or the choice of some bold or brilliant man as despot because he is suitable. For that means that men choose a representative, not because he represents them, but because he does not. Men trust an ordinary man... because they are themselves ordinary men and understand him. Men trust an ordinary man because they trust themselves. But men trust a great man because they do not trust themselves. And hence the worship of great men always appears in times of weakness and cowardice; we never hear of great men until the time when all other men are small."

Where did you get that? Did you write that yourself?

 

[Saltmeister]

How much does it cost to get a public college education overseas? Just curious.

It costs $6,000 annually if you're an Australian citizen and a lot more if you're a foreign student. If you don't rent and are not on a mortgage, social security should be more than enough to cover your educational expenses, so in Australia you could practically be a freeloader with your education. You aren't obliged to work to fund your own education because taxpayers will happily do it for you.

I would be shocked if this wasn't possible in a superpower nation like the USA (or the PRC). I wonder if civilian life is actually worse in powerful countries like the USA and PRC. What are they doing to you in the name of national pride?

Ironically, both Americans and Chinese are pretty patriotic, unlike us Australians. I suppose that's why their educational opportunities are worse. Patriotism ruins your education. You spend more time waving the national flag and participating in pomp and ceremony than actually learning.

 

[Dream]

Ironically, both Americans and Chinese are pretty patriotic, unlike us Australians. I suppose that's why their educational opportunities are worse. Patriotism ruins your education. You spend more time waving the national flag and participating in pomp and ceremony than actually learning.

I think you have a point about the patriotism vs education, although your statement does show pride in your national heritage. Patriotism should be a symptom of a good education and not the focus of education. China certainly teaches patriotism out of a belief that it is a moral and legal virtue. Slightly different, the USA peddles the patriotism to school children, but there are ways to opt out. The opt out option resulted from law suits and public outcry. Patriotism is not literally policed and injected into the children. We just try to soak them in it, slightly different. USA is actually a pretty nice place to live, so it can be hard to argue against that practice. I agree that real patriotism is not possible until the child starts making their own decisions, and I would rather have free thinkers than fake patriots. We will see how it works out.

 

[Saltmeister]

I think you have a point about the patriotism vs education, although your statement does show pride in your national heritage.

What I said wasn't really much a statement. It's not like I think being not-so-patriotic is actually good for one's country. I'm more of a democrat than a nationalist. It's more like "having pride in having no pride."

Patriotism should be a symptom of a good education and not the focus of education.

Actually the patriotism-education thing was supposed to be a joke. I certainly don't think there's a correlation.

 

[Dream]

What I said wasn't really much a statement. It's not like I think being not-so-patriotic is actually good for one's country. I'm more of a democrat than a nationalist. It's more like "having pride in having no pride."



Actually the patriotism-education thing was supposed to be a joke. I certainly don't think there's a correlation.

Don't worry about it.

 

[Dogbrain]

I think that's what G. W. Bush was, someone who acted through strength and might and one who didn't care who he ran over to forward "American interests".

And our current president is identical to Bush, except that he has a domestic agenda to shove down everyone's throats instead of a foreign agenda. But the totalitarian "strong man" mindset is the same. A smiley-face strongman is no less a strongman for being smooth-talking and "nuanced". He merely has better sound bites.

The real blame rests on the people who looked to that kind of leadership as a solution. I thinks it's a product of fear and that isn't "cool" in my book.

You mean, like the people who had schoolchildren in the USA sing HYMNS to Mr. Obama? I see no fundamental change in attitudes in the USA, merely a minor switch in which group of would-be tyrants is in charge at the moment.

 

[Dogbrain]

Where did you get that? Did you write that yourself?

It is from a work by Chesterton. It has described the dangerous adulation given to our "leaders" in the USA for decades. Such idolatry of politicians is not limited to any "side" of the "political spectrum", either. It is indulged in by all of these would-be slaves who wish to throw away all personal responsibility and be "led" by a "great one" who has "vision", or "nuance", or "change" whatever empty buzzword is popular at the moment.

Most people seem to want to be slaves. They only disagree regarding cosmetic trappings of their slavery.