Discussion in 'Hare Krishna' started by Bhaktajan II, Aug 18, 2010.
Is Ego and Self Identity the same thing?
Is Ego and Self Identity the same thing?
Yes. + No. [interesting?] as per the Yogic scriptures known as the Vedas.
EGO (ahankara, sanskrit) is the outward expression of the soul's presence "in action".
There are 8,400,000 species of life, spanning all forms of living creatures from amoebas in stool to demigods in celestrial abodes.
Each forms of living creature has a life force present that animates them and also accords them the concominant level of consciousness that had been preiviously cultivated and thus accrued to the soul a particular stratum of life (IOW, as per the fruits of work preformed by a soul with its facility & falculty in a bodily birth it has inherited its due rewards ~aka, Karma (actions) accrues Karma-phalam (fruits of actions).
Each birth through any of 8,400,000 species of creatures IS IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION from the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" ---such a revelation of the definition of Godhead as an Absolute personality transcendentale ---is available in the Vedas since time-immemorial.
The open-book revelation of just who & by what defintion is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" as an absolute "Persona" can only be spoken of and revealed by the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" himself. This is done in The Bhagavad-Gita.
Ego is commenerate with the Vessal containing the soul.
Self-identity is the original identity of the soul in its original position, namely, as an eternal associate of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
The soul is an individual entity existing within a sphere of millions & trillions of other like souls all preforming the same activites (eat, sleep, mate, defend) from amoebas in stool to demigods in celestrial abodes ---each preforms actions to satisfiy their senses (sense gratification).
The mundane ego seeks to sublimate its existance by "seeking transcendence" ---this is IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION to mundane sense gratification and self-preservation.
The False ego (the sense of "I am" this one body amongst 8,400,000 species of creatures during this & many countless past short waking life times) seeks short lived mundane gratification as the all-in-all in life.
The Science of self-realisation delineated in the yoga scriptures such as the Bhagavad-gita reveals how the soul's orginal "transcendant Ego" is inseperable from the individual soul of each "Person".
The (false) Ego is temporary as per each body/birth.
The self-identity of the soul* is "eternal associate & servant" of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
*this is the purpose of yoga disciplines [mind you, all yoga disciplines & such disciples, traditionally, are self-administered by each and every yoga practioner whilst on their-own recognisance].
Yoga = the path of "Self-realisation"
Enlightenment = knowledge of the nature of both transcendence (ie: the soul's relationship to the supreme Soul)
maya = illusion that repeated actions in repeated births in the material world are the sum-total of the ego's/soul's purpose for existing, and, that the ego/soul is the master of all they survey [rather than, in explicit CONTRA-DISTINCTION to, seeking out the means to return to the pastimes of inter-personal exchanges with "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)"]
So, in other words, the ego is a sense of self-identity attached the the flesh, and a false perception?
Or is there ego and false-ego? Is there a difference?
1] Ego = a sense of self-identity [as per present Birth-- and thus, a false (temporal) perception]. Ie: Tall or Short; Fat or skinny; Rich or poor; Ugly or beautiful; dog or cat or king or despot or thug or policeman; good or bad; etc. All these are "False ego(s)"
BTW, notice the "duality" factor? This is due to being "spirit souls in the material world".
2] Yes, there is A] eternal ego and there is B] temporal false-ego?
The difference is that the eternal ego is part and parcel of the individual soul [ie: You, me, and everyone that ever existed or ever will in future all each individual individuals. Each soul is indivisable and pervades the entire body, it is indestructible, No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul,
for the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time, the soul has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. the soul is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval, the soul is not die when the body dies, the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable the soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind, the individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried, the soul is everlasting, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the unchanged.
The temporal false-ego = the ego garnered via the particular birth. Such a temporal false-ego exists for the span of the life time. The body withers but the conscious life-force [the soul --atma, in sanskrit] continues to another birth ---thus lossing all of its Identity to the dust of time; and then to re-start another life-time . . . as per the Karma-phalam (fruits of actions/works) from the last lifetime. Scripture says that all facilities are accorded to all species without prejudice ---you get a future birth mechanically as per the stratum of cultivated sensibilities that "were remembered at the time of death".
Personal relationships, work skills, wealth, social status are all lost ---and the future birth is determined by the culmination of past works/the final thoughts at the time of death/life-long cultivated desires.
At death, unless one is informed of absolute truths (or that which approximate such absolute truths) one is destined fro repeated "relative" existence of striving to enjoy sans (without) ultimate purpose.
All past associations are lost upon a material body's death ---freeing it up to pursue any available future birth without overt effort ---as per the qualification of the souls level of cultivated sophistication.
"False-ego identity vs eternal-ego identity" ---is like "False cultivated sophistication" vs "Eternal cultivated sophistication"
Not to worry, all facilities are afforded free of charge to the soul to take all kinds of births.
It is only by way of disciplines (yoga ~ 're-link') the the soul's absolute nature can re-link with its absolute purpose/existence.
The common underlying factor is "Action" and "For what purpose the soul IN A BODY performs actions" ---It is a material/mechanical world we are in that is animated by the presence of Consciousness. Consciousness is the essence of the soul. Consciousness is the 'life-force' referred to as "soul".
The ego is temporary.
The souls' identity is a blank slate that is an individual persona.
The souls may cultivate service to Godhead [or nirvana] or it may conversely be led by a ring through the nose (yoni/yoke) by the temporal bodys' sense-gratifitory falculties.
By following the path of Lust (aka, sense-gratification) one thus is succeptable to supra-mundane "karma-phalam" ---namely, ugra-karma (funky-karma).
Ego is the limited Self, it is the modified Self which identifies with this body and this mind and these experiences, it arises in the Self and is empowered by the Self, ego is the fundamental maya.
Soul is that which is aware of awareness itself, that which even looks at the "I am" statement thus comes before even consciousness itself, it is that which is aware that consciousness comes and goes. Ultimately it even is aware of awareness coming and going, and even existence coming and going in the 7th body.
Soul is what we come to know in Self-Realization when the heart chakra opens.
God-Realization goes even further, it is to offer the very soul to existence, now you simply are the whole, the eternal witness. This is the state Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Shiva, and many others have come to... for me, Buddha is most correct here, there is no more God and there is no more you, they are no more distinct for you, yet still the body plays out its role.
The 7th body is not possible for the human for to withstand though, when you enter it is like you have stepped out of existence, yet only in this state is the statement "I am God" truly true. This is Samadhi, there is no experience there at all.
Yet, you remain aware of it, truth seems to just pour into you, but trying to get your head around it is impossible, despite full understanding.
Also, karma is only effectual when there is identification with an action or intent, it does not accumulate if you can avoid this. I do not advise ignoring it, this is existences way of reward and punishment, but it is far more immediate than Hindu's believe. Only if you do not burn it all will it remain after this life, but you can burn millions of lives karma in this very moment simply by becoming aware - why will existence punish you for something you did while unconscious when you become awake? Even many legal systems on earth are not so stupid, for instance if you kill someone and you can prove you were sleep walking, you will not be charged. It is the same if you can become enlightened this moment, everything is forgiven instantaneously.
Hindu's spend much too much time justifying things based on karma, it has become their bondage, this is one of the primary things Hindu's have missed from Buddha and especially the Tantra line. It is even better what Jesus has said, to simply forgive and drop all your deeds, he has even said there is only one life to rush the process yet he has taught reincarnation for himself. Buddha and Jesus both create an urgency which is not there for Hindu's, please learn from them.
All reasons found for delaying are delusions, do not fall victim.
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