Potter banned - unbanned

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by foundationist.org, Apr 23, 2003.

  1. foundationist.org

    foundationist.org New Member

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    Well, I've seen some Christians get into quite a twitch about the whole Harry Potter issues.

    Although I can understand the objection to some degree the fact remains that Western society is increasingly secular. Certainly, the roots of the objection to Harry Potter go much wider afield. For example, as Lord of the Rings deals with the issue of magic, surely that is also a corrupting influence?

    I'm sure for some people it still is...

    Here's the BBC story anyway:

    Judge overturns Potter 'ban'
     
  2. mac1

    mac1 New Member

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    Thats just dumb. As a kid who grew up a strict diet of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Transformers I have one question. Does anyone remember these shows ever significantly influencing regular kids? He-Man in particular was big on "the battle between good and evil" and contained sourcery, but how many people do you know who turned to black magic because they like Evil-Lynn - the chances are that a paraplegic could probably count the number on his fingers. In my entire youth I can only remember one significant instance in which I heard of kids being strongly influenced by their viewing habits - In about 1990 two local kids entered a sewer through a manhole looking for the turtles, and then came up another manhole. The point is, no matter what you put in kids TV/Movies/Books, they may be influenced by it. It is highly unlikely that any will, but there is always a possibility - and kids can't watch Playdays and ol' Tommy Tank forever! In my opinion, battles between good and evil, and stories about magic and sorcery help build an active imagination - something sorely lacking in many people today. To deprive our kids of a sense of wonder, over the outside chance that a film or book might have significant influence on them is absurd. I read my first Steven King book "The Dark Half" when I was 11 or 12 and I never killed anyone (or did I :-X - Mwah ha ha ha ha ha)! ;)
     
  3. Dave the Web

    Dave the Web New Member

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    It is all very silly. JK Rowling is hardly a threat to God.
     
  4. WHKeith

    WHKeith New Member

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    I like that, Dave the Web! IMHO, any god who feels threatened by

    1. Questioning by his followers,

    2. Critical observations by outsiders,

    3. Secular fiction,

    4. A joke

    Really has no business being a god in the first place!

    BigMacScanlan . . . I submit that kids ARE influenced by TV (and books) but rarely in the direct, I-think-I'll-g0-out-and-commit-unspeakable-acts-of-evil variety. Born-again Christian households general forbid watching those kinds of shows, fearing "corrupting influences" or simply disliking the message, which often is something like "Good always wins because the Good Guys have the coolest swords'n'stuff." And many, many MORE parents--way too many--simply use the TV as a babysitter and don't bother to check on what is being taught.

    Two points about Lord of the Rings, Foundationist. First, I know Christian households who forbade their kids from reading LOTR simply because it DID deal with magic, evil, sorcerers, and the like. (My GOD! It actually has a powerful magic-wielding wizard as one of the GOOD guys! Shocking! :eek:) )

    Second, J.R. was one of the great Christian apologists, a friend and compatriot of C.S. Lewis and others, and LOTR can be read as absolutely stunning Christian allegory. (Gandalf sacrifices himself to save the others and falls into a great gulf? He battles his adversary for three days, kills the foe, but then lies dead. or seemingly so, until caught up by Gwaihir, King of the Wind and carried to Lothlorien for healing. . . . For those with eyes to see, powerful stuff!)
     
  5. Dave the Web

    Dave the Web New Member

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    I am not a big Lord of the Rings fan but the allegory you mention does sound interesting. I know even less about CS Lewis.
     
  6. X Q mano

    X Q mano New Member

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    C.S. Lewis is one of the greatest apologetic writers of all time. Few, if any have defended the christian faith in a better way than he. (In my, and many other's opinion of course...)

    Fact is, Harry Potter also contains allegories to the christian faith.

    Look at the time when Sirius Black is threatened by hundreds of dementors and Harry manages to produce his first real patronus.

    If I don't remember totally wrong the spell for conjuring a patronus is "expecto patronus" which can actually be translated into "waiting for a saviour"

    And the saviour in HP's case is a stag that looks like a unicorn. The stag has for a long time been used as a christian symbol for Christ himself...
     
  7. Arch

    Arch New Member

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    Is the stag also a symbol for the pagan view of 'The Horned God'?
     
  8. WHKeith

    WHKeith New Member

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    Yes he is, Arch. Good catch. Early on, he was "Herne the Hunter," and recognized either as a stag or as a man with stag's antlers. Later, when people got all civilized and started domesticating animals, he evolved into a man with a ram's horns; the Celto-Romans knew him as Cernunnos. This figure maye have cross-pollinated with the Greeks as the horned, goat-footed Pan, who may in fact pre-date the Olympian pantheon.
     
  9. X Q mano

    X Q mano New Member

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    Interesting WHKeith...

    I guess a lot of things are symbols for both one thing and the other, but my point is that christians are often so afraid of these things that instead of studying them, they ban them.

    And I've never heard of anything that has made something more interesting than something being banned...
     
  10. Elizabeth May

    Elizabeth May New Member

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    I guess some symbols mean different things in different cultures. Like some hand gestures and body posturing can mean different things and often very specific in different places. A gesture harmless someplace can be very offensive someplace else. I figure symbols can be varied as well even when based on the same form.
     
  11. X Q mano

    X Q mano New Member

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    Another interesting thing though is that in the same bibleverse that says that we should have nothing to do about sorcery, it also says parties. (As in divisions, not in celebrations) (This is from the norwegian translation, I've no idea what word is used in the original manuscripts)

    It's my opinion that HP has nothing more to do with this verse than the political parties do...
     
  12. Dave the Web

    Dave the Web New Member

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    How would the issue of theological differences be addressed? I am not familiar with this. Do you have a scripture reference I can look up? Thank you.
     
  13. dwndrgn

    dwndrgn New Member

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    Forgive a poor ignorant...why is there a fear of such books? I just don't understand. Is it a specific passage in the Bible that tells Christians to not read anything that mentions evil and sorcery? Is there a reason for it? Is it because God is supposed to be the only 'being' with powers beyond our imagination (burning bush, walking on water, commuting the fish)?

    These are serious questions, I have never read all of the Bible so I am asking because I just don't know.
     
  14. kiwimac

    kiwimac God is NOT about Fear

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    Thomas the Tank-Engine is an allegory!, The Steam locos are the good guys while the creeping forces of modernism, Diesel engines, lorries, etc are the forces of evil. When the Steam engines win, goodness reigns!

    Kiwimac
     
  15. barefootgal9

    barefootgal9 Baha'i

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    Yes, many Christians seem to have (and have had for at least 1000 years) an unnatural and over-wrought fear of "witches" ... (how many have died for this?) There is only one New Testament verse mentioning it (Paul, of course):

    Galatians:[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Witches, witchcraft, sorcery and sootsaying all get a mention or two in the OT - all very negative, including the notorious "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18

    I'm clueless what constituted "witchcraft" in that time ... ! Perhaps it was a problem of "competing" gods/religions. Anyway... I would surely doubt that Harry Potter qualifies as a pagan god!

    ------
    Anyway, I was interested in the comments about the stag-god symbolism. My son, who is avidly persuing a career in animation, introduced me to a Japanese Anime film, "Princess Mononoke," in which the protecting spirit of nature is portrayed as a stag-god.

    I wonder if this particular symbolism reaches universal-Jungian proportions?
     
  16. barefootgal9

    barefootgal9 Baha'i

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    Yes, many Christians seem to have (and have had for at least 1000 years) an unnatural and over-wrought fear of "witches" ... (how many have died for this?) There is only one New Testament verse mentioning it (Paul, of course):

    Galatians:[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Witches, witchcraft, sorcery and sootsaying all get a mention or two in the OT - all very negative, including the notorious "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18

    I'm clueless what constituted "witchcraft" in that time ... ! Perhaps it was a problem of "competing" gods/religions. Anyway... I would surely doubt that Harry Potter qualifies as a pagan god!

    ------
    Anyway, I was interested in the comments about the stag-god symbolism. My son, who is avidly persuing a career in animation, introduced me to a Japanese Anime film, "Princess Mononoke," in which the protecting spirit of nature is portrayed as a stag-god.

    I wonder if this particular symbolism reaches universal-Jungian proportions?
     

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