Woman - the sikh perspective

Discussion in 'Sikhism' started by dhillon, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. dhillon

    dhillon New Member

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    WOMAN - THE SIKH PERSPECTIVE

    From woman, (man) is born; within woman, (man) is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. With woman
    (man) establishes friendship; through woman, the future generations come. When woman dies, (man) seeks another
    woman; because of woman, (man) becomes related (to other people - ਲੈਣ-ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਕ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ, etc.). From her,
    (even) kings are born; so why call her bad? From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.
    O Nanak, only the True Lord is without woman (i.e., He is Unborn, etc.). That mouth which praises the Lord continually
    is blessed and fortunate. O Nanak, those faces are radiant in the Court of God. ||2|| (sggs 473).
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    The Sanskrit word for woman is "Stree". Its modified form in Punjabi is "Istree". To understand the significance and the importance of the role woman plays in the human society, it is essential to understand the underlying meaning of this Sanskrit word. In nutshell, "Stree" simply means "expansion".

    In truth, woman never stops from expanding throughout her entire life! First, when a woman is born, she expands her parents' family. Upon becoming an adult, she gets married into another family; thus expanding her husband's family. Further, by bearing children, she expands her own family. In turn, her children repeat the same process. She, thus, keeps the family or human flame going. In her humility, she establishes the honor and dignity of the house and the society.

    Looking at it from a different angle, by bodily union of the man and woman their qualities are expanded. For example, children born of parents are expansions of the parents' personal qualities and qualifications, good or otherwise (genes, DNA, habit patterns, etc.).

    As alluded to in the Gurbani, without woman both the husband's family and the parents' family are zero. The practical implication is that without woman, there would be no one at all. Because she is the source of man's physical existence. Hence, she is sometimes called the mother of the universe. The name "Stree" thus signifies her empowerment, courage, patience, devotion, dignity, and strength. The following Shabad of Baabaa Nanak in the Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, SGGS) shows the honorable status held by woman in Sikhism. In the Slok of the Bani popularly know as Asa Di Var - pronounced Aasaa Dee Vaar - Baabaa Nanak says:

    ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਭਾਗਾ ਰਤੀ ਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥੨॥: Ma: 1 || Bhand janmeeai bhand ninmeeai bhand mangan veeaahu || Bhandahu hovai dosatee bhandahu chalai raahu. Bhand muaa bhand bhaaleeai bhand hovai bandhaan || So kio mandaa aakheeai jit jammahi raajaan || Bhandahu hee bhand oopajai bhndai baajh na koi || Nanak bhandai baaharaa eko sachaa soi ||Jit mukh sadaa saalaaheeai bhaagaa ratee chaar || Nanak te mukh oojale tih sachai darabaar ||2||: Ma: 1. From woman, (man) is born; within woman, (man) is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. With woman (man) establishes friendship; through woman, the future generations come. When woman dies, (man) seeks another woman; because of woman, (man) becomes related (to other people - ਲੈਣ-ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਕ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ, etc.). From her, (even) kings are born; so why call her bad? From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all. O Nanak, only the True Lord is without woman (i.e., He is Unborn, etc.). That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and fortunate. O Nanak, those faces are radiant in the Court of God. ||2|| (sggs 473).
    In addition to many noble qualities such as selfless love, humility, gentleness, kindness, shyness, simplicity, calmness, compassion, generosity and coyness, name "Stree" denotes the sacrifices she makes throughout her life. There can be no parallel to woman's sacrifice and patience. For example, during pregnancy she has to suffer for several months. As she bears the child, it gives her pain and discomfort while growing in her womb. She not only undergoes pain and trouble, but she also sacrifices everything including her blood for the child. At the time of delivery there is also sometimes severe danger and complications. After birth, she pays her entire attention to see the child's comfort and progress.

    Therefore, a woman as a mother indeed is more precious than the universe. This noble quality of sacrifice in her makes her sweet-natured. No wonder in the Gurbani even God is depicted as the embodiment of woman — "Sweet". Not only that, time and again, each soul is limned as woman (i.e., Stree-Ling) in the Gurbani.

    ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਸਬਾਈ ਨਾਰਿ ॥: Thakur ek sabaaee Naar: There is one Lord ("Akaal Purakh"), and all are His brides (sggs 933).
    ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ॥: Toon meraa pitaa toon hai meraa maataa: (O Lord) You are my Father, and You are my Mother (sggs 103).
    ਆਪੇ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਨਾਰੀ ॥:: Aapay purakh aapay hee naaree: (Since God) is neither male nor female; how can anyone describe Him? (sggs 1020).
    Many might be unaware of the fact that woman also has been praised throughout the ancient Vedic scriptures as Satyavati, Angavati, Anyavati and Nidanavati. In fact the well known Gayatri Mantra of Vedas — which is considered the very source of Vedas — is said to be the embodiment of woman. Satyavati means the same One God is present in every particle of the universe as the unseen butter in milk. Angavati represents the five elements (earth, water, fire, air and sky) as an aspect of God. Anyavati symbolizes different types of service and worship (Araadhanaa). Nidanavati represents the nine different forms of devotion. Woman is exalted as Aadi Shakti in the Vedic texts — different names given to her in this context include Sabada Brahmamayi, Charaacharamayi, Jyotirmayi, Vaangmayi, Nithyanandamayi, Paraatparamayi, Maayaamayi, Sreemayi, and so on. Mentioned in the Vedic texts are several godly qualities having feminine attributes — fame or glory (Keertee), prosperity (Sree), illuminating fine speech (Vach), remembrance or memory (Smriti), discriminating intelligence (Medhaa), intuition or fixity of the mind (Dhriti), steadfastness of patience or forbearance (Kshamaa), and so on. Some of the other godly qualities having feminine attributes are Sathya (truth), Dharma (truthfulness-righteousness), Shaanti (peace), Prema (love), Ahimsa (nonviolence), Dayiaa (mercy or compassion), etc.

    Thus, woman is a fountain of human values and good qualities. In fact, all souls (man and woman alike) are bestowed with these spiritual qualities. Therefore, all of us have the ability to negate or enhance their positive effects in our lives. For example, if someone is famous as a righteous man, that makes him glorious. Sweet speech is derived from the vibratory sound of the Shabad. Memory is the power of continuity of awareness. Through the power of discriminating intelligence (Viveka-Budhi), the ignorant man gains intuitive wisdom. Intuition is the fixity of the mind in Truth or its "Joti-Svaroopa". The ability to overcome unsteadiness is steadfastness, and the ability to remain intuitively balanced amidst the feelings of "likes" and "dislikes" is patience. Whatever we do from a heart filled with selfless love is Truth, Dharma, peace, wisdom and compassions.

    ਧੀਰਜੁ ਜਸੁ ਸੋਭਾ ਤਿਹ ਬਨਿਆ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਜਿਹ ਸੁਨਿਆ ॥: Dheeraj jas sobhaa tih baniaa. Har har naam sravan jih suniaa: Patience, glory and honor come to those who listen to the Divine Name (sggs 257).
    ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਸੇ ਸਦਾ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥: Jo har sevahi say sadaa sohahi sobhaa surat suhaavaniaa: Those who serve God are always beautiful. The glory of their intuitive awareness is beautiful (sggs 122).
    ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਮਣੀਆ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਸੋ ਹਉ ਕਰੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਵਸਿ ਆਵੈ ਕੰਤੁ ॥੧੨੬॥ ਨਿਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਖਵਣੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਮਣੀਆ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ ਏ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਭੈਣੇ ਵੇਸ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਂ ਵਸਿ ਆਵੀ ਕੰਤੁ ॥੧੨੭॥: Kavan su akhar kavan gun kavan su maneeaa mant. Kavan su veso haou karee jit vas aavai kant. Niwan su akhar khavan gun jihba maneeaa mant. Ye trai bhaine ves kar taa vas aavee kant ||127||: What is that word, what is that virtue, and what is that magic Mantra? What are those clothes, which I can wear to captivate my Husband Lord? ||126|| Humility is the word, forgiveness is the virtue, and sweet speech is the magic mantra. Wear these three robes, O sister, and you will captivate your Husband God ||127|| (sggs 1384).
    These glorious feminine attributes can be tapped in meditation (Jap or Naam-Simran). Once they are awakened in the bosom from their dormant condition, the life has to become glorious. When their mystery is so unlocked within, the light of these attributes must illumine the entire body-mind-intellect apparatus.

    Ironically, in one hand the man wants to awaken these spiritual ideals and virtues in his bosom so that he can link with God, his Pure Self. But the same time he wants to denigrate the woman by calling her "the doorway leading to the most rigorous hell" ("Narak ghor kaa dwaaraa or Duaaraa "), "Pair kee jootee" (equal to footwear), "slave", and so on! The Gurbani condemns such hypocrisy.

    ਹਾਥ ਕਮੰਡਲੁ ਕਾਪੜੀਆ ਮਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਉਪਜੀ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥: In his (Sannyaasi) hands is the begging bowl and he wears a patched coat like a mendicant's but with him is immense craving. And though he abandons his own wife, he's attached to another's, lured by sex-desire (sggs 1013).
    In India, in addition to dowry system, woman for centuries have been systematically downgraded by many ways by the religion and priest class (Pujaaree Group). For example, they were falsely labeled by the priest class as spiritually "impure" due to menstruation; they were forced to burn in the pyre of their husbands (Satee); they were deprived of education (material and spiritual) and equal rights for property and inheritance; they were considered unfit for spiritual advancement or salvation; they were subjected to economic, social, and cultural oppression; they were regarded as a source of sin, vice or dishonor to man and thus labeled as bad influence on him; they were considered hurdle to man's spiritual journey; they were declared as not very intelligent and trustworthy; some went to the extent to suggest women being alike animals in meaning or significance; and so on. This sort of attitude towards woman has promoted social degradation of the status of women as well as social inequality between man and woman. As a result, the attitude towards women as subordinate remains not only in India but throughout the world. In some cultures and religions it's worse than others. In the western cultures, the woman is generally looked at as a sex symbol — she is praised only if she has good looks. In the middle eastern cultures, the woman is virtually treated as a slave, accentuating social, economic and cultural inequalities.

    Thus, the woman who is full of so many wonderful spiritual qualities is today considered something very small, insignificant, unintelligent, weak, lowly and is relegated a backward place and neglected. Not only discriminated against, women are also denied the freedom and opportunity to develop their full potentials. They are considered inferior to man in all respects. This is nothing but ignorance. On account of this ignorance, it is unfortunate today that respecting woman is considered a shame and unmanly.

    Organized or institutionalized religion is a powerful thing in that it can mold and shape the psyche, thinking, mindset, attitudes, conduct and behavior of its people. Misunderstanding, misinterpretation or misuse of the scriptural statements by the selfish and crafty priest class has been the main factor responsible for many ills in the human society including the woman's sorry plight.

    The Gurbani's (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) perspective is the Sikh perspective. To reawaken women and uplift their status in the society, plenty of feminine symbols have been used in the Gurbani.

    ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ...: Aradh sareeree naari na shodai ...: Woman is the other half of a man's body (ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੀ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਦੀ ਸਾਂਝੀਵਾਲ, etc.), and she never leaves him... (sggs 477).
    ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਬਾਬੁਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਮੈ ਦਾਜੋ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕਪੜੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਸਵਰੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਕਾਜੋ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ ॥ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਰਭੰਡਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਹੋਈ ਇਹੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਰਲੈ ਰਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਹੋਰਿ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਦਾਜੁ ਜਿ ਰਖਿ ਦਿਖਾਲਹਿ ਸੁ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਕਚੁ ਪਾਜੋ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ਬਾਬੁਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਮੈ ਦਾਜੋ ॥੪॥: Hari prabhu mere Baabulaa Hari devahu daanu mai daajo ...: O my father! Give me the Lord's Naam (Gur-Giaan, Aatam-Giaan, Shabad-Giaan ...) as my wedding gift / dowry. Give me the Lord's Naam as my clothes (wedding gown, etc.), and the Lord's Naam as my glory, to accomplish my task (of getting wedded to the Lord - Realization of the Mool ...). Through the Lord's Bhagti (Understanding of the Gurbani ...), this task (of wedding to the Lord) becomes easy (comfortable, charming, beautiful ...); the Satigur, has given this gift. (Through this gift of the Lord's Name, one's) glory (ਸੋਭਾ) pervades across the continents, and throughout the Universe. This gift is such that no other (dowry) is equal to it (ਇਹ ਦਾਜ ਐਸਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਨਾਲ ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਜ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ). Any other dowry, which the Manmukhs (self-willed ...) place for show, is only false egotism, and a false display (of falsehood). O my father! Give me the Lord's Naam (Gur-Giaan, Aatam-Giaan, Shabad-Giaan ...) as my wedding gift / dowry. ||4|| (sggs 78).
    At the time of the Gurus, Satee Praathaa was prevalent in the Indian society. The Satee Prathaa involved the woman burning herself alive on the funeral pyre of her husband, either willingly or thrown forcefully into the pyre without her consent. The third Sikh Guru, Guru Amar Das Sahib, strongly crusaded against this evil practice of this Satee Praathaa and paid special attention to improve the status of women in the society.

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਸਤੀਆ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਜੋ ਮੜਿਆ ਲਗਿ ਜਲੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤੀਆ ਜਾਣੀਅਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਜਿ ਬਿਰਹੇ ਚੋਟ ਮਰੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਭੀ ਸੋ ਸਤੀਆ ਜਾਣੀਅਨਿ ਸੀਲ ਸੰਤੋਖਿ ਰਹੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਸਾਈ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਸੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥੨॥: Slok Ma: 3 || Sateeaa ehi na aakheean jo marriaa lag jalannih. Nanak sateeaa jaaneeanih ji birahe chot marannih ||1||. Ma: 3 || Bhee so sateeaa jaaneean seel santokh rahanih. Sevan saaee aapnaa nit uth samhaalanih ||2||: Slok Ma: 3. Do not call them "Satee", who burn themselves along with their husbands' corpses. O Nanak, they alone are known as "Satee", who die from the shock of separation (from their Husband Lord) ||1||. Ma: 3. They are also to be considered as "Satee" who abide in modesty and contentment. And cherish the Lord ever and call on Him ||2|| (sggs 787).
     
  2. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    What do your scriptures say about same sex relationships?
     
  3. dhillon

    dhillon New Member

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    the ultimate goal in sikhism is to break away from cyles of birth and death and return back to god head.. what is right and wrong,, hot or cold,, goodness and badness,, world of duality is not enough for the developement of the soul.. in goodness also you faces death and badness also the same..we have to rise much higher then this all.. how long we want to become slaves to death?
    in sikh scriptures moral values are mentioned.. one thing we must remember that human birth is much higher then angels birth..in human birth you received free will and a chance to attained the lord names thru his grace.. grace is only given to humans but not angels..angels does not have free will,, and does not received any grace from god..even angels are crying day and nite asking the lord for a human birth...so angels do have desires for a human birth..
    so back to your question having sex with the same type is wrong.. sex should be used in a proper manner for expansion purposes example having children..just having sex with nothing at the end and for own enjoyment is wrong..tq
     
  4. dhillon

    dhillon New Member

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    continue----Woman - the sikh perspective





    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਸਤੀਆ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਜੋ ਮੜਿਆ ਲਗਿ ਜਲੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤੀਆ ਜਾਣੀਅਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਜਿ ਬਿਰਹੇ ਚੋਟ ਮਰੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਭੀ ਸੋ ਸਤੀਆ ਜਾਣੀਅਨਿ ਸੀਲ ਸੰਤੋਖਿ ਰਹੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਸਾਈ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਸੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ॥੨॥: Slok Ma: 3 || Sateeaa ehi na aakheean jo marriaa lag jalannih. Nanak sateeaa jaaneeanih ji birahe chot marannih ||1||. Ma: 3 || Bhee so sateeaa jaaneean seel santokh rahanih. Sevan saaee aapnaa nit uth samhaalanih ||2||: Slok Ma: 3. Do not call them "Satee", who burn themselves along with their husbands' corpses. O Nanak, they alone are known as "Satee", who die from the shock of separation (from their Husband Lord) ||1||. Ma: 3. They are also to be considered as "Satee" who abide in modesty and contentment. And cherish the Lord ever and call on Him ||2|| (sggs 787).
    In Sikh thought, man and woman do not enter into matrimony for bestial reasons, but rather for spiritual advancement. Therefore, in Sikh thought marriage based on true love, mutual respect, understanding, trust, fidelity, chastity, loyalty and friendship is considered an essential part of physical life. With the example of a worldly marriage performed on a material plane between a man and a woman, the Gurbani explains in the four "Laavaan" as to how we can join (marry or link) the Higher Consciousness Within. Thus, marriage in the Sikh Way of life is supposed to be an unbreakable spiritual union of two souls into one. It is a mean to learn helping each other and attain together a balanced life, self-fulfillment, spiritual unfoldment and Self-knowledge leading to spiritual perfection in life ("Jeevan Padvee").

    ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥: Dhan pir ayhi na aakheean bahan ikthay hoyi. Ayk jot dui mooratee dhan pir kaheeai soyi: Bride and groom are not they who pose as one whole; bride and groom are they who are two bodies with one soul (sggs 788).
    As we can see, the Sikh Masters condemn practices and restrictions which serve to keep woman in a state of backwardness and in a position of inferiority. It is shame that the practice of sex prejudices as preference for a male child exist not only amongst Sikhs and Hindus, but also in many other countries; making people bent on sex preselection techniques and female infanticide.

    If mankind as a whole wants to bring harmony, prosperity and peace to the world, then, as indicated in the Gurbani, man and woman must walk together on the path of Truth with selfless love, faith, mutual respect, determination and courage. For this to prevail, both man and woman have to live fully in his or her own unique nature or respective realm, in uplifting and positive spiritual vibration. In other words, to improve, both man and woman need conducting and behaving virtuously, respecting each other's sentiments, avoiding areas of conflict, ruthlessly shunning all their differences, and treating each other with honor and dignity.

    If the both man and woman are deluded, then both forget their True Nature (Pure Consciousness) and thus drown in the shoreless ocean of worldliness. But if one of them is endowed with spiritual qualities, he or she will lead the other toward Higher Consciousness.

    In the final analysis, as one ascends towards Higher Consciousness, one must transcend all labels including the one of "man" or "woman". Because — from the standpoint of Higher Consciousness — as indicated in the Gurbani there is no male or female (or duality)! It's just One mass of homogeneous Consciousness there. Distinctions, differences, conflicts, divisions, and duality exist only so long the mind's conditioning persists (Haume or false ego-sense, attachments, self-limitation etc.). The Gurbani asks us to abandon the mind's defects and seek that Higher Consciousness (the Source) Within, where there is no differences — no wife or husband, no man or woman, no lover or beloved, no this or that. In the following verses, Baabaa Nanak points to this state of Higher Consciousness that we must realize Within by becoming Gurmukh or Brahm-Giaanee. Because, before the rise of the phantom called mind, that's what we all were!

    ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥ ਧੁਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥੩॥: Purakh mahi naar naar mahi purkhaa boojhau barahm giaanee ...: Understand this, O God-realized being - the female is in the male, and the male is in the female (from the male semen, the woman is born and from the woman, the male is born). Meditation is in the Dhuni (of Naam, Shabad-Surti, Unstruck Transcendental Vibratory Sound-current, etc.), and His knowing (God-realization, etc.) is in such meditation. Become the Gurmukh, and speak the Unspoken Speech (i.e., the Lord's Unspoken Speech - ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਨੀ - can be realized or be known only by becoming the Gurmukh)||3|| (sggs 879).
    ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥: Naar na purakh kahhu ko-oo kaisay: He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him? (sggs 685).
    ਨਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਨਮਾ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੪॥: Naari purukh nahee jaat n janamaa naa ko dukh sukh paaidaa ||4||: (Before the rise of material consciousness) neither there was female, nor male, nor caste, nor birth nor did any one suffer pain or pleasure ||4|| (sggs 1035).
    ਸਰਬ ਭੂਤ ਏਕੈ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਚੂਕੇ ਬਾਦ ਬਿਬਾਦਾ ॥: Sarab bhoot ekai kar jaaniaa chooke baad bibaadaa: I look upon all beings alike, and my conflict and strife are ended (sggs 483).
     
  5. Mr.Bean

    Mr.Bean New Member

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    I have not read what you have write, all religions respect women but the question is, Is there any religion started by women??? Why a man can do polygamy but not woman??? Why was there not a woman guru in 10 gurus of Sikhs. Even Guru Har Krishan ji was only 8 year's old, so I had expected a female guru.........
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    It is the nature of women, there have been many who have become enlightened but they simply don't feel the need to boast about it. There are a few examples of more forceful women, but these are more masculine in demeanor. Women tend to simply enjoy what has happened...
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    I don't understand why this has become a big issue in judging a religion?

    All people go through a stage where sexuality is not fixed, it is just an expression of lust in no particular direction. Gradually, naturally, all move to desire the opposite sex, but some remain simply generally lustful. This may be due to social stigma or simply being more comfortable with their own sex.

    For most religions, and especially Sikh's, they understand sexuality to be a merging of the opposites. Now, in many same sex relationships too it is that one is more male and one more female, but it is a mindset rather than a physical differentiation. For most, this represents something unnatural, but it is perfectly good if that is what they wish. Still, the goal of marriage is to create a whole, the two aspects of the species merge into one, just as all duality must be transcended.

    No matter, sexuality should not be a distinct feature of religious discussion, it is simply irrelevant. Religion is about merging back with existence, even in Luciferian beliefs the higher self is exactly this. This is the thing, how to realize what you are, not who agrees with your choices but how to drop that which choice arises in - the mind.
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    I also can't agree with this, if it is the persons nature then they should explore it, see if it is fulfilling to them. Ultimately, celibacy is the highest thing, but until then it is stupid to force anything - it will simply result in repression and ultimately obsession and perversion. It is extremely unhealthy to suppress things, and if you believe God is the creator then he has made them that way. Your personal position on it is irrelevant, creating an illness because you don't agree with them is far more wrong than their deed.

    We can see that there are ways to limit the negative impact of sexuality through contraception, if you believe God is the only being then it is impossible that this is created without his blessing. There are also a plethora of STD's, this is a caution, he has given permission with criteria of being careful or there will be punishment. For me, with these steps, there is no reason to pay attention to sexuality. If and when celibacy arises it will be a beautiful thing, but it is time to move on from the debacles of the past on this topic.

    For me, existence has handled it perfectly and man should keep out of others affairs. It is not for man to judge, allow karma to function as it will.
     
  9. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    I'm not judging Sikhism by this, I am simply asking 'it's' judgment of same sex relations and was clearly given an answer.

    Not everyone moves towards desiring the opposite sex.

    Your misunderstanding of LHP Principles and Luciferianism ceases to amaze me.

    Anyway, I didn't intend to derail the thread, only wanted to know the Sikh stance on same sex unions.
     
  10. MuhamedAli

    MuhamedAli New Member

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    good work

    this is good work!
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Luciferian prophecy is about the perfect female angelic body the bride of lucifel its all about male and female union. Lucifel is male Lucifer female. People dont know this. Its really not about same sex relationships. It simply doesnt work that way. The bodies are naturally designed like the spirit and each has one opposite thats their other half. Two of same sex do not go together as identified by the bodies. Its not about accusation but about explanation as to why.
     
  12. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    What Luciferian prophecy? What are you talking about?

    According to whom?
     
  13. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Its fallen angel prophecy. Just like human beings have the bible fallen angels have one too.
     
  14. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    where is it, I'd like to read through it?
     
  15. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Was not Luciferianism majorly influenced by people like Pythagoras?

    LHP is the Europeans take on what the Egyptians and Hindu's were doing mystically. They have used logic to try to decipher it all, yet few have actually experienced anything of the divine in these methods - it is why it remains basically philosophical and splintered, because it draws no conclusions. Only experience can bring about anything like a conclusion here...

    While the West continued speculating what this and that meant, the Hindu's went in an entirely different direction, they said neti neti - neither this nor that. Shankara has brought this to its absolute peak, and I would recommend you read some of his work. Yet still it remains logical, but it is as close as logical can bring us...

    Why will you read about different peoples takes on everything, and then read further the takes of others on these first flawed perspectives? I saw again and again that mind cannot go beyond, wheresoever mind takes us we remain in the mind, and it is mind which must be transcended.

    In Luciferianism, it is about realizing the Higher Self, but it is the same, it is still that which is beyond the Lower Self, still you must ascend - this is exactly why it is called higher and lower, it is the same as I call pure awareness or true Self and ego or false self.

    The Hindu's simply go far more deeper, and we can say the Buddhists have gone even deeper still, but all the West has tried to do is comprehend what the East means, they have remained entirely on the surface. If that is all you desire, it is perfectly good, but Nanak is one who has gone into the infinite depths. He will not look as intelligent, yet he makes Pythagoras or Plato or Aristotle look foolish, for he has experienced what they have spent their lives trying to figure out.

    Experience is the way to true wisdom, knowledge can only talk about it.
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Omkar is not different from the Higher Self, it is Allah and Brahman, Yehweh and Dharmakaya, and it is Lucifer - these are all references to the same experience, the experience of Truth.

    You dislike the concept of God, I understand this full well because I had spent much of my life insisting its fallacy. How can I deny what I have experienced though? It becomes impossible, yet it is the true me, and in this your philosophy is perfectly correct. It cannot be something else, for it is everything, there is no exception.

    The way many traditions portray this is disgusting, for they have attempted to use this experience to instill rules, and of course it works - they will experience the light through studying even those violent words in their tradition, the Sikh's have not avoided this for their Guru's led them to war against the Muslims. I entirely feel for you in this, it cannot be truth that love itself has instructed this, it must be entirely the imagination of a man - although I insist Nanak was enlightened, I cannot say that the Guru who has taken Sikh's to war could possibly be, however brilliant he might have been.

    Yet so is Luciferianism basically imagination, you must find out the truth free from all nonsense.
     
  17. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Why do I say the Buddhists have gone even deeper than neti neti - neither this nor that? It is because they have arrived at Nirvana - nothingness itself. In Hinduism, still there is some identification, you are the atman, or you are the void or whatever else. Buddhists simply say there is nothing, and everything arises from it.

    Not nothing as a lacking, nor nothing as a potential... simply nothing.

    This is the collective unconscious, yet nothingness remains aware of it.

    Nothingness cannot be arrogant, yet it is not humble...

    Nothingness cannot be below or above... there is nothing there

    That nothingness is absolute, and yet all is its play.

    This is the mystery, this is why the mystic looks on all with such wonder.

    How can such diversity arise from and yet still contain absolutely nothing?

    It makes no sense, yet it is so.
     
  18. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Such are the depths Nanak has come to.
     
  19. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Science is coming to the same place, only 2500 years after Buddha!

    For around 60 years, Science said the atom is 99.9i % empty, now it says size of objects is merely about the space within it. It says that the electrical charge within the particle will not permit something else to enter that space... this, they are now saying, is what we perceive as physical objects - just what energy field a particular thing occupies.

    Science, thus, seems to corroborate Buddha, everything is utterly empty... physical things are merely in our minds, nothing is real in any way... except energy, but what is energy?

    It is that which manifests in us as awareness, you must find out what it is.
     
  20. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    "After three days Guru Nanak appeared at the same spot from where he had disappeared.". . . . jeeez, more idiocy, more make-believe. You don't get it, and I don't think you ever will. You know nothing about the LHP or Luciferianism. Pythagoras has nothing to do with Luciferianism as a whole.
    Your Sikh mind-games are useless in real life, they are but another religious maze of BS.
     

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