Theosophy

Discussion in 'New Age' started by Nicholas Weeks, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    Anything by Blavatsky, William Q Judge, Katherine Tingley or G. de Purucker are solid sources of modern Theosophy. Others like G. Farthing, BP Wadia and Joy Mills are also good.

    Here is an online two volume text titled The Esoteric Tradition by Purucker: Theosophical Society Point Loma

    For many fascinating experiences with HP Blavatsky, read The Esoteric World of Madame Blavatsky by Daniel Caldwell: http://www.theosophical.org/online-resources/online-books/1726
     
  2. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    Would you also recommend reading Krishnamurti, not least considering that the Theosophy Society pronounced him as the Messiah?
     
  3. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    He is still adored by some Theosophical Society members, but I am not one of them. After K. rejected theosophy, organizations, gurus etc. he ended up peddling his personal, highly intellectual, vedantic flavored 'pathless path'. His personal vices and contempt for most people turned me away.
     
  4. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    One of the Theosophical writers that appeals to many, because of the nature of the subjects he deals with (I find him very clear, as well) ... is Geoffrey Hodson.

    The booklet Krishnamurti and the Search for Light [St Alban Press, circa 1939. 61 pages.] is described as "a rebuttal of J. Krishnamurti’s iconoclastic teachings, but with an acknowledgement of some of his positive insights."
     
  5. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    I'm curious - why is his "pathless path" so unpalatable?

    And what are the "vices" you mention? Seems a strange comment, especially after the accusations of paedophilia that plagued Leadbeater in his later years.
     
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  6. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    As a witness to (some of) his discussions with David Bohm, I find the characterization a trifle off. But I went to see him as someone who was seeking a "higher-level" intellectual reconciliation between "Westernism" and "Easternism" via a Wilberian holistic approach, not for spiritual guidance.

    He was consistently critical of a notion of "a path" or "a truth" or "an authority".

    From discussions with FD Peat, DB thought JK had "pushed him away". Most of DB's criticism later showed that what really bothered him (IMHO) was that JK would not even talk about the "true path" with him. Regardless of his fame as an advanced post-Einsteinian thinker, Bohm remained western (and Jewish) to his core, needing a "single objective path". JK was not into that. Plus this was the era when the alleged long-term sexual liaisons became public and Bohm was pretty puritanical.
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    "Seeker, follow no path for every path leads there, truth is here"

    Truth is already the case, you only need to purify yourself of delusions. They needn't be cleared gradually, they can be simply dropped, this very moment gone. Any path caters to mind, now you can pretend you are accomplishing something, now you are occupied and this is satisfactory to you. This is very detrimental, believing that enlightenment is a goal in the future, you never melt into herenow - the only actuality, and thus the only place of realization.

    This is what Krishnamurti has talked about, but it is perfectly true that he was scarred deeply by the Theosophists. This causes me to question his full enlightenment, since he has never dropped it. His contempt is certainly reasonable, however.
     
  8. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    Read or read about Lives in the Shadow with J. Krishnamurti, by Radha Rajagopal Sloss.
     
  9. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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  10. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Krishnaji forsook his Messiah ... and if you look into it you can see, understand why. This is about forgiveness, but it is about the Wisdom. The one who was forsaken was of course the Christ. Jiddu tried and no one in his Right Mind can blame him. As is pointed out, he aligned with the Devas, with the airy element and with a different line of approach than was needed by the Christ. For this choice he cannot be faulted, yet the comparison with Master J. falls short ... at this juncture.

    So Jiddu dissolved the Order of the Star, and set sail across his Pathless Land. He forsook the same Masters as the Christ, the Buddha and the Theosophical Mahatmas who had long known this Brother on the Way.

    You may all pretend, or you may not know, but let's call a thing what it is. Geoffrey Hodson spoke out of utmost respect, deepest reverence, for the bold sacrifice made by Krishnaji on the Inner Planes. This should be apparent. Let's not scapegoat a pedophile or two who appears on the radar, lest we toss all of centuries of Catholicism right out the window alongside it [him, CWL]. The fact that Leadbeater was trained by the Mahatmas is indisputable for some of us. His clairvoyance was of high order, taking him into the mental and perhaps beyond. I challenge you - any of you - to tell me about such landscapes ... and chart them in a series of brief discourses [CWL made many of these, but he also wrote books like The Masters and the Path and The Inner Life]. Take the time to read these, realize some of the Inner contacts which this man - and plenty of us - have had, and set envy aside. The glamours fall away, we learn a thing or two about how it is that the Great Ones achieve ... a better Day.

    Jiddu was - or became - an Arhat. He was under the direct training and influence of the Christ. A man can shuffle that around in his head as many ways as he likes, but if you set the crap aside for a second, it's that simple. I can't imagine what stress he must have been under. I cannot begin to fathom it. It is beside the point that we can look here and there, even find and attribute the presumed causes or influences behind JK's downfall. But I know, one man may as readily throw out the Mahatmas as Krishnamurti did ... it will do no good for the rest of us. We are as aware of them as realities as you are of ~ parsley, of parakeets, of petunias. And so we must account for it all.

    I just think there is so much in his contribution that if a person dwell on the negative, the greater of the contribution is missed. A High Initiate, if all I say is true, nevertheless somehow did not quite fit ... or fulfil some higher purpose. Big deal. I think people are apt to mistake the superhuman for the Perfect. There are so many fine gradations in between, and then there are the Perfect Masters who still become more so, and all the better expressed, every year, every day of their lives. I don't think unending Perfection has much meaning for most of us.

    Let's talk about Perfection first. Let's speak about some of those Ideals ol' Krishaji was speaking of, starting with At the Feet of the Master ... and remember, if they're taught then there's a Teacher, and if there's a Teacher then there's a student ... and where there are students there is a Community ... and pretty soon I gotta go lookin' for Buddhas again to kill.

    I can't stand it! ;)
     
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  11. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    Re: Brothers visit Blavatsky

    One witness to HPB's Brothers - from Caldwell's book linked on first post:

    11a. Martandrao Babaji Nagnath, April 1881, Bombay, India [Hume 1882, 103, 104–105]

    I have had constant occasions to visit [Theosophical] headquarters at Breach Candy, Bombay. My connection with the Founders of the Society has been close, and my opportunity good for studying Theosophy. I am therefore inclined, for my satisfaction and for the information of students of Nature, to record here my experiences of certain phenomena, which came under my observation on several occasions in the presence of brother Theosophists and strangers. I have also had the rare privilege to see the so-called and generally unseen Brothers [Mahatmas] of the 1st section of the Theosophical Society.

    In the month of April 1881, on one dark night, while talking in company with other Theosophists with Madame Blavatsky about 10 p.m. in the open verandah of the upper bungalow, a man, six feet in height, clad in a white robe, with a white [turban] on the head, made his appearance on a sudden, walking towards us through the garden adjacent to the bungalow from a point—a precipice—where there is no path for any one to tread. Madame then rose up and told us to go inside the bungalow. So we went in, but we heard Madame and he talking for a minute with each other in an Eastern language unknown to us. Immediately after, we again went out into the verandah, as we were called, but the Brother had disappeared.

    On the next occasion, when we were chatting in the above verandah as usual, another Brother, clothed in a white dress, was suddenly seen as if standing on a branch of a tree. We saw him then descending as though through the air, and standing on a corner edge of a thin wall. Madame then rose up from her seat and stood looking at him for about two minutes, and—as if it seemed—talking inaudibly with him. Immediately after, in our presence, the figure of the man disappeared, but was afterwards seen again walking in the air through space, then right through the tree, and again disappearing.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
  12. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I want to clarify ... the people I have met, several of them in the physical body and on more than one occasion, were not cardboard cutouts. Even to suggest such a thing regarding HPB and the Mahatmas is ... just phlebotomous! [as our former Commander in Thief liked to put it, at least in comedy spoofs]

    Anyway, I can't recall: It may be that the Old Lady played a prank on someone who well deserved it; perhaps this is where some of the Coloumb controversy centers. But again, accusing her of fabricating the Mahatmas, cooking them up in her imagination, etc. ... only reveals the ignorance of the accuser. We have a few like that around here, but mostly we just have people who are uninformed.

    Perhaps we can change this latter condition through our discussions. We just have to remember that some people's ignorance is more rightly a form of nescience, and here also we might be able to help. All they need is a bit of eduation, and sometimes this can occur as a side effect, even a direct result, of threads like this one. Other times, a person will fight tooth, claw & nail to preserve his state of ignorance, having chosen and continuing to choose it, then guarding it jealously, as this is all that really protects him from certain uncomfortable realizations.

    The fact that we are 100% Responsible, insofar as any of us is able to grasp it, for our current conditions in life ... as well as those in the afterlilfe - not to mention the conditions of our NEXT human birth [based upon how we choose to live our lives in the present] - is just a bit much for some folks. Let these suffer and flounder, and even let them spew bile if such discharges nevertheless force them to reconsider just how and why they arrived at their present state of ignorance.

    None who has taken up the subject of the Masters, STUDIED the possibility with an unbiased mind and a dedicated effort, can but come to the realization that there is more to the topic than meets the eye [as with all else in life] ... and when, along with these there is combined a pure heart, sincerety of motive and an earnest Aspiration to be of assistance to such enlightened beings - AND to one's fellow man - THEN and not likely before, the aspirant will find the confirmation and the Revelation he or she is seeking. N.B.

    This is the firm Foundation upon which many of us today KNOW FULL WELL who and what it is that we are working toward ... with never a need to question why, nor ever a cause to stop and second guess ourselves. We do know, of course, from direct experience that the topic is one worth revisiting, a thousand million times if this is what people are seeking, in order that the Sons of Men might come to know something more of their TRUE Heritage, their Noble, Heavenly birthright ... and their Innate, Divine potential (and then work to fulfil the same!).

    Most are able to receive this with sufficient humility, once we see and can clearly assess the Work ahead. Others cannot face or fully accept the challenge that comes with the road of unlimited Opportunity, but they too have a Service to render - and even if they back away or temporarily step away from the plate, their contribution can still be considerable, even if some of this occurs in future incarnations. C.S. Lewis and J. Krishnamurti might well be listed among these latter, as both men made the most of their situation ... given the choices which took them away from that which was otherwise possible, and offered.
     
  13. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    Last edited: May 16, 2015
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    I am glad you are interested in a discussion of Theosophical terms. I have always found the term Sambhogakaya a little tricky. How do you distinguish Sambhogakaya from Dharmakaya?
     
  15. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    These bodies or kayas are profound & difficult. Bodhisattva Hui Neng's sutra has much insight. They are within everyone, in seed form now. They are the one Buddha Nature.

    One way to think of them, theosophically, is that the Dharmakaya is Atmic Life; Sambhogakaya is Auric Egg consciousness and Nirmanakaya is Buddhi-Manas consciousness.

    Therefore only the Nirmanakaya consciousness can, practically speaking, affect or help we ordinary people. The other two levels are too exhalted.
     
  16. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    It would seem, then, that Sambhogakaya is Atma-Buddhi consciousness. It is difficult to imagine what 'Auric Egg consciousness' is.
     
  17. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    Start with page 607 and study the references to auric egg or auric envelope. This may give you a better idea of the 'consciousness' of the auric egg.

    EI : Instruction No. III- Blavatsky Collected Writings Vol. 12

    Also see the definition in the big glossary link I posted earlier.

    Some more on the AE: http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/human/hu-gdp4.htm
     
  18. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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  19. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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  20. Nicholas Weeks

    Nicholas Weeks Bodhicitta

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    This is the TS Pt Loma of Holland holding a two-day event on Spirituality. Each session is archived and has both Dutch & English speakers and translations.

    ISIS Foundation on Livestream.
     

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