Could Rev 2:9 & 3:9 be referring to Herodian Idumeans?


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Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews(Judahites), and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews (Judahites), and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I have always wondered as to whom Jesus was referring in these verses, but could it be that He was referring to the Herodian Idumeans who claimed to be Jews by conversion but remained Idumeans by ancestry.

John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

All of the true Israelites had been in bondage in Egypt, but apparently the ancestors of these Pharisees in this verse were not. Yet they still claimed to be Abraham's seed. How could that be? The answer could be that these Pharisees were descended from Abraham not through Jacob and Judah but though the line of Esau/Edom. (Idumean is the greek word for Edom)

Please notice that Joseohus also realized the Idumeans were a negative force, to say the least!
Josephus on Jerusalem's Destruction
The events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Roman armies are summarily designated the "abomination of desolation." The holy city/place where God is worshiped in his Temple, is to suffer abomination and desolation. Josephus gives us a clear record of this occurring in Jerusalem's last days, especially after Jerusalem is surrounded.[75] It is particularly distressing to the Jew that the abominable Gentile[76] would ultimately enter into the Temple of God, as did the Romans (see below).
[76]Acts 10:28; 11:2-3; cf. Eph. 2:14.

When the Jewish War finally heads to Jerusalem, all hell breaks loose. I mean this somewhat literally. Demonism seems to be a real factor in the Jewish War, as a comparison of Revelation 9 and Matthew 12:41-45 shows. The Idumeans within the city stir up revolution within Jerusalem, bringing war into the Temple itself (Wars 4:5): "the outer Temple was all of it overflowed with blood; and that day, as it came on, saw eight thousand five hundred dead bodies there" (Wars 4:5:1). The inner strife is so bad that Josephus calls it "a sedition begotten by another sedition" and "like a wild beast grown mad, which for the want of food from abroad, fell now upon eating its own flesh" (Wars 5:1:1). Hence, Christ's dire warning to flee without turning back. Once Titus begins encircling the city, it will not take him long to seal it off from the outer world (Matt. 24:16-20).
By eliminating the Hasmoneans Herod brought to an end the line of royal priests. He appointed seven high priests during his tenure; consequently, there were a number of ex-high priests around in the days of Jesus.[1] Annas served from 6-15, and his son-in-law, Caiaphas, who tried Jesus, served from 18-36. Herod and his successors, Archelaus and the procurators, controlled the High Priests by retaining all their garments and implements until needed.
Herod’s reign was contemptible in the eyes of the righteous. He interfered with the High Priesthood, appointing priests and deposing them at will. He was accommodating to pagan ways, making temples and athletic arenas in the Roman mode. His building projects at Caesarea and in Jerusalem were magnificent; and his desert fortresses were absolutely amazing. But they all speak of one who was paranoid. And well should he have been; even though he was a powerful and effective ruler, he was also ruthless and cruel. He was responsible for the death of his wife Mariamme, as well as several of his own sons and relatives. It is not hard to imagine how such a man could command the killing of the innocent children when he heard of the birth of a king (Mt. 2). (Doesn't Herod sound as though he were Satan himself?)
I am more thasn a little surprised this thread has not stirred any real interest. Where are the historians on this list? Anyway, I have found more material to add the bolsters the cases for the Idumean infiltration of the administration of the House of Judah and the Pharisaic Sanhedrin.

in the days of John Hyrcanus (end of the second century B.C.E.) … the [non-Israelite] Edomites became a section of the Jewish people. "EDOM," Encyclopaedia Judaica (Jerusalem, Israel: Encyclopaedia Judaica Company, 1971) Vol. 6, p. 378

[the non-Israelite Edomites] were then incorporated with the Jewish nation…. "EDOM, IDUMEA," The Jewish Encyclopedia (New York & London: Funk and Wagnalls Company, 1904) Vol. V, p. 41

from then on they [the non-Israelite Edomites] constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod [King of Judea] being one of their descendants. "EDOM (Idumea)," The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1977) p. 589 they [the Edomites] were hereafter no other than [non-Israelite] Jews. Flavius Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews (Grand Rapids, MI: Dregel Publications, 1960) Book XIII, Chapter IX, Verse 1, p. 279


"Before the discovery of the Qumran "Dead Sea Scrolls" mainstream scholars divided Judeans under Pharisees and Sadducees, now it is clear even to them that there were many groups and movements in the Second Temple Religions: Pharisees, Sadducees (perhaps several kinds), Essenes, Samaritans, Zealots, Christians, and probably many more. Yes the mainstream now sees this more as true that there were many imposters.

We know the Half Edomite Herod Usurper King of Judea ran out nearly all the Sadducee original priests and appointed his own Edomite Pharisaical order, and their rulers being his own sons.

During the Herodian and Roman periods, "some twenty-eight high priests (only two of which were from families that had any legitimate claim) held office in little more than one century (from 37 B.C.E. to 70 C.E.)."
- Craig A. Evans, "Opposition to the Temple: Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls" in Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls (James H. Charlesworth, Ed. - 1992), p. 239

(note: remember, there's a big difference between Priests, and High Priests. We see it was the newly appointed "high priests" that were almost completely Edomite-Canaanites, and they had most of the control on the churches and lower level Priests.)