no sorrow in heaven

lunamoth

lunamoth

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I am wondering how people here would resolve this.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15. (Paul is talking to Christians and is comparing belief in Jesus Christ as the foundation upon which one builds) By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Being a believer saves you but somehow your works in life affect the quality of your heaven? But that seems to conflict with the idea that there is no sorrow in heaven (from exactly where others got this teaching I do not know--perhaps someone else here does?). Can one suffer in heaven?
 
Dear Lunamoth

lunamoth said:
I am wondering how people here would resolve this.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15. (Paul is talking to Christians and is comparing belief in Jesus Christ as the foundation upon which one builds) By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Can one suffer in heaven?
Click to expand...

The foundations of our being is very important and what we build upon those foundations to, gold etc I feel is referring to materialism and all darkness will brought into the light of day. Selfishness and disharmony within can burn someone up in esoteric terms it is called the fire of purification. 'He himself will be saved is referring to the soul, through purification the soul is saved.

It depends on your belief for me heaven and hell is within it is up to us to make of it what we will. I have experienced both.

Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas

If you abstain not from the world, you will not find the Kingdom.

He disciples said:
Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek after it.
He said to them:
He who has ears let them hear:
There is light
at the centre of a man of light
and he illumines the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness.


Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
and another quote about foundations

Why do you call me, "Lord, Lord" and then not do as I say?
I will show you what the person who comes to me,
hears what I have to say and acts accordingly is really like.
That person is like someone building a house, who digs deeply and lays the foundation on bedrock.

The rain pours down, the floods rise in a torrent (emotions)
and the winds blow and beat upon the house,
but it does not fall. It is built on rock.

But the one that listens and does nothing is like the person who builds a house on sand with no foundations. When the river (river of life) bursts against it, it collapses immediately and is destroyed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sometimes the foundations are built on false ideals, perceptions and negativity due to childhood experiences and unmet needs and this can create sorrow in heaven on earth. Hence why self mastery was/is so important to ensure the foundations are strong as rock. Often people can be strong on the outside but weak inside, the aim is to reverse this. To be a strong rock foundation on the inside and as soft as a rose on the outside.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
Dear Sacredstar,

Thank you for your replies to my question--very interesting view of this passage. I believe similarly: we create our heaven or hell while on earth on a minute by minute basis. One thing that I imagined recently is that if there is a time of judgement perhaps it will be that we are given complete clarity of what we have done in life so that we really end up judging ourselves. Maybe that's why it is so important to strengthen our compassion and mercy in this life, so that we are capable of compassion and mercy for ourselves at that moment.

This question came up at a bible study in which I participate. I've noticed that many others in ths study read the bible more literally than I do and it seemed like it went unresolved. Maybe it is meant to remain a mystery in this context, but I thought someone here could shed light.
 
Dear Lunamoth

I agree with you totally, which is why Jesus tried to teach us to not judge, to be compassionate, merciful and loving always, so that we would not judge and harm ourselves. His words are not meant to be taken literally and I feel that this passage that i was just viewing says it all. Synchronicity indeed!

Mark 4 (New International Version)

The Parable of the Sower
1Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge. 2He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3“Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times.”

9 Then Jesus said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”

13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?
14 The farmer sows the word.
15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy.

17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop–thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown.”

A Lamp on a Stand
21He said to them, “Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? 22For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. 23If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”

24“Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you–and even more. 25Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.”

The Parable of the Growing Seed
26He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground. 27Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how. 28All by itself the soil produces grain–first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. 29As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.”

The Parable of the Mustard Seed
30Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? 31It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground. 32Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds of the air can perch in its shade.”

33 With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. 34He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.

Jesus will explain everything to you Lunamoth and I'd say you are hearing him well.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
lunamoth said:
I am wondering how people here would resolve this.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15. (Paul is talking to Christians and is comparing belief in Jesus Christ as the foundation upon which one builds) By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Being a believer saves you but somehow your works in life affect the quality of your heaven? But that seems to conflict with the idea that there is no sorrow in heaven (from exactly where others got this teaching I do not know--perhaps someone else here does?). Can one suffer in heaven?
Click to expand...
Iunamoth
This scripture is a warning to us to build our foundation for the right reasons not for reasons of materialism or for self gratification.. If we go through life and minister to ppl in order to receive stars on our crown of glory and not for the glory of God and 'agape' love for our brothers and sisters.. those acts with be tested and judged by their worth. Of course our salvation isnt in question but those precious stars will be the loss. So we must constantly test ourselves by asking if you are doing this for God because he wishes it or are we doing it for ourselves because of greed or self gratification. Constant prayer and meditating on the word helps to keep us in check. If we notice ourselves doing things for the wrong reason.. repent and forgiveness is promised. Ask the Lord for help and he WILL help.

Matthew 21:22
And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."


Faithful Servant
 
Hi

I would just like to add a couple verses later on in 1 Cor 3:18-20 another thing we must strive to keep in check in ourselves.

18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness" 20 and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Hi

I would just like to add a couple verses later on in 1 Cor 3:18-20 another thing we must strive to keep in check in ourselves.

18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness" 20 and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply and for the verses. If I read the verse above several times a day it would still not be enough.
 
Greetings lunamoth

This quote seems to bother you..
I am wondering how people here would resolve this.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15. ...... If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Being a believer saves you but somehow your works in life affect the quality of your heaven? But that seems to conflict with the idea that there is no sorrow in heaven (from exactly where others got this teaching I do not know--perhaps someone else here does?). Can one suffer in heaven?
Click to expand...
It would seem that you feel that the fire might refer to the "fires of hell" (by the way I do not belive in a fiery hell) but here is another explanation for you to consider...

Fire and salt were associated with the sacrifices offered at the temple. (Le 2:9, 13; Eze 43:24) Salt represented freedom from corruption and was a symbol of enduring loyalty, as found in the expression "covenant of salt." (2Ch 13:5) Of what, then, is the fire symbolic?

The apostle Peter refers to trials or sufferings as a "fire" that proves the quality of the Christian’s faith. (1Pe 1:6, 7) Later, he likens suffering for righteousness to a burning when he tells his fellow Christians: "Do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, . . . you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory." (1Pe 4:12, 13) That such suffering for righteousness has a beneficial effect is pointed out by the apostle Paul when he says: "Tribulation produces endurance." (Ro 5:3) A person who faithfully and successfully passes through a difficult "burning" trial is stronger and more solidly established as a result of his endurance.—Ac 14:22; Ro 12:12.

Ben
 
Ben57 said:
Greetings lunamoth

This quote seems to bother you..

It would seem that you feel that the fire might refer to the "fires of hell" (by the way I do not belive in a fiery hell) but here is another explanation for you to consider...

Fire and salt were associated with the sacrifices offered at the temple. (Le 2:9, 13; Eze 43:24) Salt represented freedom from corruption and was a symbol of enduring loyalty, as found in the expression "covenant of salt." (2Ch 13:5) Of what, then, is the fire symbolic?

The apostle Peter refers to trials or sufferings as a "fire" that proves the quality of the Christian’s faith. (1Pe 1:6, 7) Later, he likens suffering for righteousness to a burning when he tells his fellow Christians: "Do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, . . . you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory." (1Pe 4:12, 13) That such suffering for righteousness has a beneficial effect is pointed out by the apostle Paul when he says: "Tribulation produces endurance." (Ro 5:3) A person who faithfully and successfully passes through a difficult "burning" trial is stronger and more solidly established as a result of his endurance.—Ac 14:22; Ro 12:12.

Ben
Click to expand...

Dear Ben,

Thank you for your reply. Actually, in retrospect I relaize that perhaps my original post was not made with a pure heart. It is due to some frustration I feel with people in my study, and in general, who take the Bible literally and also expect that I will too if I am to meet their criteria for being a 'true' Christian. Why do I care about their opinions? Good question. Guess I'm just human. Anyway, I sincerely apologize.

If one takes the flames in the OP quote metaphorically, as St. Paul and you do, then it makes sense to me. In fact the interpretations and bible verses supplied by both you and FaithfulServant are helpful in understanding this teaching of Paul's, that is as they are intended: metaphorically.

I am enjoying your contributions to the forum. :)

Happy New Year!
 
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