Is Buddha right?

[Hamid]

How do we know all what Buddha said is right and true? Basically, proving the opposite is very simple. A lot of people (and I) believe that even in the realm of sprituality, mystiscim and our preceptions, human is progressing.
If Buddha said something 2500 years ago, there is much progress on that during centuries from then on.
Buddha was just a human and human perception is limited. He might have had some enlightment and he interpreted that according to his own understanding.

I don't understand why the Buddhists think whatever he said is valid for ever!!

And this answer that " experience it for yourself if it's ture or not" is not a good answer because the chance that we get that far is very small and to get there -according to Buddhists - you have to believe/practice all what Buddha said.

I am looking forward to hear some good answer to my question.

 

[mirrorinthefog]

Admittedly I'm not a Buddhist, and I could be terribly wrong in my interpretation, this is just my two cents worth. I've read about Zen philosophy in particular, and it seems to me that the fact that every human being is different and can contribute something to the practice is part of the idea. As one's consciousness evolves, one's understanding of the world broadens, in its own time and in its own way. Of course, all religions require a leap of faith, but I don't see that as adhering to every single word Buddha said. It's not the fact that "he" said it that makes it valid, it's the fact that these methods have been tried again and again and each has yielded results. Buddhism a method of achieving balance, not a dogma. (As far as I know, someone who isn't Buddhist isn't threatened with a fiery hell for not listening to Buddha's words, and there's nothing to say that one cannot question them or adapt them as needed, which may account for the various schools of thought in Buddhism-again, I could be wrong).

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Hamid

well Buddha's words

BE a light unto yourself !

are eternal

you will find the same message in every ancient culture

Know thy self and you shall know the universe.

A Buddhist came on one of my workshops recently, and I was very pleased to discover that many are moving with the times. Living that which is essential and leaving the rest behind. I am witnessing this across the board with Muslims and Christians as well. Individuals are making amazing progress and accessing the wisdom/guru within instead of looking for a teacher outside of themself. Onwards and upwards while humanity goes through this amazing transition.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Sacredstar]

I don't understand why the Buddhists think whatever he said is valid for ever!!

This applies to all sacred texts!

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Hamid,

thank you for the post and welcome to the forum.

How do we know all what Buddha said is right and true?

before we really get into much depth, are you familar with the Buddhist teachings?

if you are, i will skip the "introduction" type of material and try to address your questions. if you are not, however, please let me know so that myself, and others, can provide the foundational understandings.

Basically, proving the opposite is very simple. A lot of people (and I) believe that even in the realm of sprituality, mystiscim and our preceptions, human is progressing.

i'm not sure what you are trying to say here. you are trying to say that Buddhism doesn't say that people progress? if so, that is pretty much the complete opposite of our view

If Buddha said something 2500 years ago, there is much progress on that during centuries from then on.

this actually represents a fundamental difference in our traditions. our teachings are not meant in a dogmatic sense.. they are words.. and the words are guideposts... pointers along the way, if you will. so, bearing this in mind, the literal meaning of the words is superceded by the intended meaning of the words, which is the lesson being imparted.

Buddhism is also a bit different in that if our teachings were to teach, say that the universe is expanding (which they do) and we discover that the universe is actually not expanding, or is contracting, then our teachings would change to be consonant with our observations. this is a strength of the Buddhist system of teaching.. there is nothing to be dogmatic about

Buddha was just a human and human perception is limited.

after Goatama became the historical Buddha Shakyamuni, he was asked if he was a God, to which replied "no". he was asked if he was a spirit, to which he replied "no". he was asked if he was a human, to which he replied "no". finally, the interloquer asked what he was, to which he replied "Awake".

this is an experience that is ineffable, outside the ability of lingusitic convention to convey... and not much more can be said of it.

I don't understand why the Buddhists think whatever he said is valid for ever!!

we don't. we aren't supposed to accept any of the teachings that Buddha gives without testing them like a goldsmith tests gold. in Buddhism, the Kalamaa Sutta is where this is expounded in it's most concise form:

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when undertaken & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" -- then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when undertaken & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' -- then you should enter & remain in them."

And this answer that " experience it for yourself if it's ture or not" is not a good answer because the chance that we get that far is very small and to get there -according to Buddhists - you have to believe/practice all what Buddha said.

have you ever tasted a parsimon before? lets say that you haven't and i have one in my hand. i take a bite of it and my facial expression is one of delight and i say to you "this is wonderful, it's the best fruit ever." can you tell if it is or is not without tasting if for yourself?

in the end, we are not required to believe anything more than we are capable. this is why you find a variety of schools and Vehicles within the Buddhist tradition. our teachings say that there are 84,000 Dharma Doors (Entryways to Truth), each according to the capacities of the individual sentient being.

as an aside, we have some decent threads that address some of your questions already on this wonderful forum. i would encourage you to avail yourself of them if you have the time and inclination as they may address some of your queries in a more thorough fashion.

 

[BluejayWay]

Certainly, human knowlege and the ability to apply that knowlege in the material world has increased by many orders of magnitude since many of the great teachers, such as the Christ and the Buddha and the Prophet, have walked the earth. And I'll grant that progress has been made on the religious front, as well--one doesn't hear of too many churches or temples packing 'em in for human sacrifices these days.

But even in the scientific and technological realms, progress does not necessarily negate an earlier truth. Newton's laws of physics were knocked on their ear by Einstein's genius. But was Newton proved wrong? No, not by a long shot. Applying quantum theory to the day to day activities by which we live our lives would be pointless--when I'm driving a car, I'm not approaching light speeds, and when I'm in the kitchen cooking dinner, I'm not dealing with subatomic particles--I'm either rounding a curve at 60kph or mixing an egg with flour and water. Newton's view of the universe works just fine for me, thank you, but about a hundred miles west from here, at the Fermi Labs outside Chicago, scientists eat their breakfasts, drive their cars to work, and enter the Einsteinian universe of quarks and uncertainty.

(Do you want to see what happens when you mix Einstein with Newton? Two words: Schrodiger's Cat.)

And we're still scratching our heads over the question of how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids, and such like. Ancient astronauts? Give me a break. Fact is, our ancestors 10,000 years ago were every bit as bright as we are today, if not brighter in some regards. We discount ourselves if we denigrate the achievements of those intelligent and industrious folks who came before us. I'm rather proud of what my elders accomplished, and I don't beleive I'd make myself look much smarter by running them down as dummies. If they were so dumb, how did they come up with such a brilliant progeny as me ?

So far, at least, in our cultural and biological evolution, a lot of things have stayed the same. Sure, we know a lot more about the physical universe, and can make, perhaps, some better-informed guesses about the immaterial, but I'm not sure that automatically spells progess. Nuclear power plants would be a great improvement over coal-fired plants, if it weren't for all that pesky weapons-grade plutonium and uranium that might occur as a "by-product."

Okay, the point is, some things, once proven true, remain so. The Sun shines, grass is green, cold water feels great on a hot day.
It's good to treat people like you'd like to be treated, it's bad to hurt people, and doing nice things feels good. Nope, some things don't change.

The Buddha was one of a number of wise people through the ages who was tasked with recognizing Truth and communicating it to others. He did so, as all prophets, mystics, teachers and shamans do, by speaking to those who would listen in their own tongue. Moneychangers don't operate out of places of worship anymore (although I have heard of automatic teller machines being installed in large American churches...), but I can extrapolate, through my own experience, what Jesus was up to when he cleansed the Temple of those who were profaning it with their greed.

To be on the safe side, I'll not venture into a sidebar here about the patent silliness of some of the newer religions (such as Scientology or the Book of Mormon, but who's naming names?), but cut the cultural baggage, and you'll find the same spiritual treasure inside, no matter who "discovered" it when.
It's our job to apply it's benefits to our lives today, in the here and now.
"Give me that old-time religion," but give me the means and the courage and the faith to really live the Truth and Spirit of it, and not the empty words.

 

[Hamid]

Thank you very much for your answers. I am trying to understand it correctly.

before we really get into much depth, are you familar with the Buddhist teachings?

if you are, i will skip the "introduction" type of material and try to address your questions. if you are not, however, please let me know so that myself, and others, can provide the foundational understandings.

I think I know the basics. I read a book totally about the buddhism teaching and serveral articles about buddhism. Although it's not that much.

in Buddhism, the Kalamaa Sutta is where this is expounded in it's most concise form:
..........

Well, from this point of view, there is no that much difference between Buddhism and -let's say- Islam. It is said in Islam " the number of ways to God is equal to the number of people" or they say " what guide you to distinguish between good and bad, is your FETRAT - ( almost equal to consciense)" . and that is the first step one can take: relying on what is wise and what his FETRAT says.
They say : the real guidance comes from God to your hart according to your devotion to your wisedom/consciense (that is, to do what you yourself find good and not to do what you yourself find bad).

What you're saying is like : I can be a muslim and at the same time a Buddhist (right?) I don't know but I think either I didn't understand your answer or there is something missing.

But I just give an example:
Buddhists believe in rebirth, moslims don't. Christen don't either. Believing Rebirth or not play a major role in your decisions. And this is not what you can taste or experience ( at least at this level that I am).
And I can't say Buddha is right in this issue since he was a human, and he might have made a mistake about it. Besides, It contradicts other believes.

 

[BluejayWay]

Buddhists believe in rebirth, moslims don't. Christen don't either. Believing Rebirth or not play a major role in your decisions. And this is not what you can taste or experience ( at least at this level that I am).
And I can't say Buddha is right in this issue since he was a human, and he might have made a mistake about it. Besides, It contradicts other believes.

For me, raised a Christian, I accept the teachings of Jesus. I believe that what he preached was right. Another person, born and raised a Muslim, may well believe what Mohammed taught, as a third person, living in a Buddhist culture, will believe that what Buddha said was correct.

Strip away the details and anecdotes and dogmas surrounding each of these great Teachers, and you will find them in agreement. Love each other, do good, revere what is sacred.

Those, to me, are the beliefs that matter.

Rebirth, or reincarnation? I really don't know--to me, that's a detail that has little to do with ultimate truth.

Any belief that seperates one person from another, in my opinion, is not a correct belief. If Buddha made a mistake about reincarnation, so be it. It doesn't affect his message one bit. And if Jesus made a mistake turning all that water into wine (the faith of my fathers' excludes alcohol), well, it doesn't mean his motives were bad, and it hasn't had any affect on many Christians who refuse to drink alcohol on moral grounds.

We're all human, and we all can make mistakes. I believe it is only by checking our own behavior with the actions of others that keeps us on the right road.
It doesn't matter what kind of car we drive, if we all obey the rules of the road.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste and Salaam hamid,

thank you for the post.

Thank you very much for your answers. I am trying to understand it correctly.

we are all students

Well, from this point of view, there is no that much difference between Buddhism and -let's say- Islam.

Islam and Buddhism share a great many things, especially along the lines of ethics and morality.

What you're saying is like : I can be a muslim and at the same time a Buddhist (right?) I don't know but I think either I didn't understand your answer or there is something missing.

well... i realize in the modern synrectistic trends, this would be something that is posited... however, it is my view that with a proper understanding of both traditions, you really couldn't call yourself a Buddhist-Muslim or anything like that. sure, you can use some of our teachings and our techniques and all that, however, our ontology is very different from each others.

Buddhists believe in rebirth, moslims don't.

true.

Christen don't either.

some Christians do. you can read my post in the Comparative Religion section of this forum for a view of Rebirth in Christianity. Judaism also has a tradition of rebirth, though it's properly reincarnation, as does Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism). on the whole, more religions expound a form of rebirth/reincarnation than those that don't. interesting eh?

Believing Rebirth or not play a major role in your decisions.

for some Buddhists, this is true. for many others, they completely reject this teaching and are still Buddhist

And I can't say Buddha is right in this issue since he was a human, and he might have made a mistake about it. Besides, It contradicts other believes.

that's ok... Buddha wasn't human... as we covered before. well... his physical body was human, this is true... but that's it in any event... it doesn't matter if he was correct or not on this issue, the point here is if you put into practice the teaching, you can determine for yourself if it's valid or not. without doing so, you really can only speculate.