Who created God?

[RJM]

I pointed out that a person who worships satan cannot have their prayers answered.
I went on to explain why.

Others went on to explain that’s up to God to know.

I pray for a Mercedes Benz, my prayer might not be answered in the way I want it to be, because God’s concern is with my soul. Not to say God may not also ease my physical situation, in response to my prayer, but not at the expense of my soul.

In desperation when a person finally realizes they cannot do anything, that person may turn to God, saying: “I can’t do this. It’s over to you.”

I believe God responds to that surrender. I believe my own free-will means God’s angels can do nothing to help me, unless I ask. It is the surrender of my own free-will. How humbling the thought that God cannot help me -- his own creation -- unless I give my permission.

However the first response to my prayer may be to begin to strip me of all the physical and emotional dead-weight that is preventing me from being able to hear and surrender to the ‘still small voice’ of Spirit. This is probably going be a very painful process for me. Floods of tears. I feel things are just getting worse. I am losing everything.

I cannot travel the narrow path or enter through the narrow gate with a lorry load of stuff. I cannot board the flight to freedom with a grand piano under my arm. I need to travel light. As the process happens, I feel lighter. I start to understand it all, and begin to feel angels close to me.

It is not me that approaches to angels. Angels come to me.

Once through that narrow door, perhaps I will see before me a vast expanse of freedom. Perhaps all the physical and emotional stuff I had to let-go, will be there when I get through the door, waiting for me to pick it up again, if I wish to.

And if I do, the process will just begin again. It is expansion following contraction, the eye of the needle, the horus and the nexus of the hourglass. The spiritual terms and symbols become alive to me, in a wonder of spiritual revelation. Of course because I am (also) an ordinary natural creature bound by time and space, my revelation has to followed by a return to the drudgery of ordinary living.

But I will never forget that touch of the Divine. I will understand the power of just that one touch, as the effects of it spread through me and reach every part of my life. It will be the most important event in my life. I will always yearn to experience it again. Hopefully I will, from time to time. But I also understand that as a natural creature, I cannot experience in full the power of Spirit. It is too much for me.

And from that point on I know that God is there, always with me; from now on God is the only reality to me.

The revelation comes to me whatever my faith or time or place. God hears and knows. Angels may watch and weep, but they cannot come to my aid unless I surrender first my free-will.

That is rhubarb. Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. What do you think Messiah MEANS?

It’s not about dictionary definitions. The meaning Christ has acquired for Christians may be different from the original Greek definition. Words change the subtlety of their meanings over time. This has already been discussed in previous threads.

There is no need to keep emphasizing your words in capitals and colours and big bold type. I am quite capable of reading what you say. It amounts to shouting, in internet protocol.

I would have thought that it was VERY clear from this that Jesus, peace be with him, has not yet "accomplished all he had to do on Earth" !

No doubt Christ himself has his reasons. The core of Christianity -- the living reality of Christ -- quite escapes you. Sorry, no offence intended.

Also there is no need here to add ‘peace be with him’ when referring to Jesus. I know it is meant as a token of respect, but Christ does not need the peace of man. It is man requires the peace of Christ, imo

They then proceeded to encourage me to follow their particular "flavour" of belief. I would then "turn off", and say that I wasn't interested in all the "bells and whistles".

The irony of what you are saying quite escapes you. Sorry, again no offence intended.

I took steps towards God, and He manifested Himself to me.

One step towards God, and God takes nine towards me. Any time, any place, any faith. imo

Unsolved mysteries that cannot be solved could mean that we don't really WANT to solve them.

It could also mean they cannot be reduced to simple human language.

Surely we belong to God .. and to Him we will return.

We can agree on something at last.

For the rest, we have to agree to disagree. I am not interested in trying to ‘convert’ anyone to my own belief system, which does not anyway conform to the dogmas of conventional Christianity. Sacred scriptures are a map; rituals and dogmas are the shell of the nut. Sorry to mix metaphors, but eventually they lead to the same thing IMO

If I was interested in trying to ‘convert’ anyone, my method would not be to barrage day after day with so-called logical arguments that are obviously based on my own own 'logical' belief that the only truth is the one dictated by that particular scripture I choose to accept. I would imagine my example to appear disrespectful and so have the opposite effect, and turn a person off. That's what I think.

So …

 

[muhammad_isa]

..It's true what you say but if it does not find fertility and fruition in the heart through experience, it's dung, spiritually speaking. Exoterically speaking, it becomes dogma. (but not dung)

That's right .. if a heart has not received "the Holy Spirit", then religious knowledge will not help us find truth.

 

[stranger]

That's right .. if a heart has not received "the Holy Spirit", then religious knowledge will not help us find truth.

You seem to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting here, so I say, just fulfill your calling. Don't be afraid. Yesterday I had to be reminded of my own, of what I am -- not what I would like to be. It's sad in some ways, but we have to always go with that path which has been appointed to us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Others went on to explain that’s up to God to know.

Hmm .. but we can be SURE that satan will be in the eternal fire of hell.

Almighty God knows the fate of everyone of us.
Naturally, we do NOT know, but if we have authentic religious knowledge [ Bible / Qur'an ], it is not rocket science
to know that people who follow a religion that prays to satan are not going to be answered by God.

From a theistic Satanist perspective, the Abrahamic religions (chiefly Christianity) do not define "good" or "evil" in terms of benefit or harm to humanity, but rather on the submission to or rebellion against God. Some Satanists seek to remove any means by which they are controlled or repressed by others and forced to follow the herd..

In desperation when a person finally realizes they cannot do anything, that person may turn to God, saying: “I can’t do this. It’s over to you.”

That is not disputed. While a person is still alive on this earth, they can decide to pray to God instead of satan .. it's their choice.

I cannot travel the narrow path or enter through the narrow gate with a lorry load of stuff. I cannot board the flight to freedom with a grand piano under my arm. I need to travel light. As the process happens, I feel lighter. I start to understand it all, and begin to feel angels close to me.

It is not me that approaches to angels. Angels come to me.

Of course. This process is never ending though. The knowledge of God is not finite.

But I will never forget that touch of the Divine. I will understand the power of just that one touch, as the effects of it spread through me and reach every part of my life. It will be the most important event in my life. I will always yearn to experience it again. But I also understand that as a natural creature, I cannot experience in full the power of Spirit. It is too much for me.

True .. if we try to climb "the spiritual ladder" too quickly, we can become insane .. or rather like in snakes & ladders, we will go down that "long snake" and not be successful.

There is no need to keep emphasizing your words in capitals and colours and big bold type. I am quite capable of reading what you say. It amounts to shouting, in internet protocol.

I find a wall of mono-type quite boring and often difficult to read. It's just a style.

Also there is no need here to add ‘peace be with him’ when referring to Jesus. I know it is meant as a token of respect, but Christ does not need the peace of man. It is man requires the peace of Christ, imo

It is for the good of my [our] own soul .. just as somebody who blasphemes a "son of God" is against their soul.

I am not interested in trying to ‘convert’ anyone to my own belief system, which does not anyway conform to the dogmas of conventional Christianity.

Well, your idea and another's idea of what conventional Christianity actually IS could be quite different..
It seems that you have a "feeling" about what Jesus Christ means, but ignore the concept of a Messiah / Christ.
Isn't that misbelief / hypocracy?

 

[Thomas]

There's an old story I read, from the sixth century ... a monk, a mystic, a Syrian, I think, but I can't remember who.

He was a Christian theologians, and locked in dispute with two pagan philosophers, and the dispute was on-going. The monk showered them with furious condemnations and dire warnings of the fate that awaited them.

One night, he had a dream. He saw what he had warned the two would always happen, the ground had opened up to swallow them, and the two men were sliding down into the pit of hell. They were trying to claw their way out. He was watching, waiting for them to fall in.

Then he noticed another man, who was scrambling down, grabbing each man in turn and dragging him back up to the lip of the pit. He himself then went down, to remonstrate with this man, to insist that he leave these sinners to their well-deserved fate.

Not until he was close did he realise who the other man was. "I died to save men from hell," Jesus told him. "You seem intent on pushing them back in again."

From our 21st century viewpoint, the dream is 'clearly' a psychodrama. It matters not. The important point, the one the mystic-monk understood, was that it was, for him, an epiphany. He went straight away and made peace with his opponents.

 

[stranger]

From a theistic Satanist perspective, the Abrahamic religions (chiefly Christianity) do not define "good" or "evil" in terms of benefit or harm to humanity, but rather on the submission to or rebellion against God. Some Satanists seek to remove any means by which they are controlled or repressed by others and forced to follow the herd..

Not to interrupt this exchange, but something I have thought about before. Antinomianism, when embraced as a concept and a way of life, ironically, becomes a law, rendering the antinomian really no better than the herd. It's sort of like, no matter what we do, no matter how high our ideals, no matter how much better we might think we are, when all the cards fold we are the same.

 

[stranger]

We all are subject to law, whether we realize it or not, and it's rewards or punishments. But can law ever bestow life, or is it just a mirror, showing us who we really are? Or perhaps, what we are not?

 

[RJM]

Not to interrupt this exchange, but something I have thought about before. Antinomianism, when embraced as a concept and a way of life, ironically, becomes a law, rendering the antinomian really no better than the herd. It's sort of like, no matter what we do, no matter how much better we think we are, when all the cards fold we are the same.

Had to google that one, lol
Antinomianism

 

[stranger]

Had to google that one, lol
Antinomianism

Lots of times these things just pop into my head, can't even be sure where I learned them.

 

[stranger]

Now it is clear that both the Jew and the Gentile (the election and those outside the election) are under the condemnation of the law. "There is none that does good, no, not one. They are all gone out of the way, they have all become unprofitable." And so, there we all stand, together. The elect (from all dispensations, past and future) and those on the outside. All of us lost children, orphans in a sense.

(Got to head out soon for my 2nd vaccination, then a walk. Hope to return in a few hours.)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Antinomianism, when embraced as a concept and a way of life, ironically, becomes a law, rendering the antinomian really no better than the herd. It's sort of like, no matter what we do, no matter how high our ideals, no matter how much better we might think we are, when all the cards fold we are the same.

..but we are not "all the same".
Some people choose to follow satan instead of God.
Now, that may be because they don't agree with what the societal majority are imposing on them,
or perhaps some other reason.

..but they are not compelled to rebel against God. That is their choice. A bad choice.
There are 1000's of other choices.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The monk showered them with furious condemnations and dire warnings of the fate that awaited them.

Why would he do that?
If he didn't care about them, he would presumably not have anything to do with them

Not until he was close did he realise who the other man was. "I died to save men from hell," Jesus told him. "You seem intent on pushing them back in again."
...
He went straight away and made peace with his opponents.

What sort of peace? Didn't he tell them about where he thought they were going wrong anymore?

 

[Thomas]

Why would he do that?

I wouldn't overthink it, personally.

 

[stranger]

..but we are not "all the same".
Some people choose to follow satan instead of God.
Now, that may be because they don't agree with what the societal majority are imposing on them,
or perhaps some other reason.

..but they are not compelled to rebel against God. That is their choice. A bad choice.
There are 1000's of other choices.

Do you know of anyone who made that choice? If so, tell me what you can, how the person felt, anything. Just what you know or are allowed to share.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..It's sad in some ways, but we have to always go with that path which has been appointed to us.

What does that mean?
Are you free to choose or not?

 

[stranger]

What does that mean?
Are you free to choose or not?

Yes, within certain limits. Obviously, if I could I would choose to be a great bird who patrols the skies forever, or a large wolf running free through endless forests and plains, but I can't do either of those as long as I am encased in time. I have only a few limited choices, limited by time, limited by which doors open to me and which do not. Only outside of time am I truly free.

"There are a lot of people reading this who are not participating in the discussion, and the threads will continue to exist for years into the future."



(Dear Unknown Friends, who will be reading these threads in the future (hopefully in a galaxy far, far away), please accept my apologies. We were shooting for something between "folie en famille" (bat-crap crazy family delusion) and the grandiose belief that our words and deeds here are of some cosmic importance. With regard to the latter, in my mind I have renamed all of us as "Keepers of the Cosmos", as Guardians of the Galaxy was already taken. When you read our words, Dear Unknown Friends, please forgive us and understand we were doing the best we could with what we had to work with at the time.)

 

[muhammad_isa]

(Dear Unknown Friends, who will be reading these threads in the future (hopefully in a galaxy far, far away), please accept my apologies.)

I'm sure they will feel suitably entertained.

I have only a few limited choices, limited by time, limited by which doors open to me and which do not.

Well, quite obviously, there is more to it than meets the eye.
Nevertheless, when it comes to the case of choosing a spiritual path, I would have thought
that it very much depends on the state of our soul, which is affected by our whole lives.

What I mean is, that the simple statement of "God guides whomsoever He wills" is not as straightforward
as it might first appear. It is down to us to conquer our own failures / weakness.

 

[stranger]

I'm sure they will feel suitably entertained.



Well, quite obviously, there is more to it than meets the eye.
Nevertheless, when it comes to the case of choosing a spiritual path, I would have thought
that it very much depends on the state of our soul, which is affected by our whole lives.

What I mean is, that the simple statement of "God guides whomsoever He wills" is not as straightforward
as it might first appear. It is down to us to conquer our own failures / weakness.

This is probably a premature reply, but are you saying there is a gradation to the willing of God? For instance, it could seem like closed doors opening at a certain point, willing a little here and a little there, and then graduate to a more complete willing, where the person is more and more in complete lockstep with that willing? It breaks through the conscious mind and floods the being with a more expansive willing.

Like in the Tao, when it says every day something is dropped, until non-action is achieved. Meaning, the person no longer has to use so much self-effort, the willing and flow of the Tao takes over (actionless action).

 

[RJM]

There are a lot of people reading this who are not participating in the discussion, and the threads will continue to exist for years into the future."

The meaning in context is that people believe fake news unless someone puts them right

 

[stranger]

The meaning in context is that people believe fake news unless someone puts them right

I've never been afraid to be corrected myself, it's a good thing. In fact it is written that even the Lord corrects those he loves, or else they would be illegitimate.