The soul: A view of its origin

Discussion in 'Theology' started by Thomas, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    308
    Hey Thomas, good to speak with you again.

    His writings are very spiritual, and although I doubt he would ever lay claim to being a mystic, most surely he was that and more. I remember as a young man I was seeing things in his writings that were so frightening to me that I once threw one of his books (Types In Genesis I think) across the room. It's just that what I was seeing there was so contrary to what I was and what I thought I wanted out of life.

    Yes, I remember gathering from your posts that you were fed from the writings of the Traditionalists. I have only read 2 from there, though I think they were quite good. One was Schuon's main book, "The Transcendent Unity of Religions". The other was from Guenon, "Perspectives On Initiation". The Guenon book was especially heavy reading but good. I have also read "The Sword of Gnosis" which was more of an anthology of quotes from Traditionalist writers.

    It's hard to get the mind around this "unmanifested and the supra-individual formless states of manifestation". It's so spiritual and timeless, the mind is just helpless in the face of it. Very hard to conceptualize. Somewhere in that non-conceptual and unmanifested state, I just envision us as like children playing, full of joy and fulfilled, so very happy. I envision something living and teeming with life and holy diversity, yet one with God in a way that boggles the human mind which needs to divide and categorize in order to understand.


    I can understand how it might be seen as two creations, but I really think it is only one... It comes from the timeless realm which is without beginning but fell into time, being trapped there as a way to arrest a falling that would have otherwise had no bottom at all to it. I run out of words here, and really have no certainty, just speaking from what I see in my own heart. From the alchemy created here in this dark world comes the philosopher's stone, or a further perfecting created by the union of opposites. From here, it goes back to God with a capacity for love than transcends it's first estate. I have no idea what I just said. :)

    The two accounts... To be honest I would have to go back and look at Jukes on that myself. I just recently came to see the fall in both accounts (it's all one, just looking at it from two perspectives). The first thing that occurred to me concerning the two accounts was what was the end result of each one?

    In the first, it is the perfect man (adam and eve). We know it is perfect because it is said that on the seventh day God rested from all his works. It's all complete right there. One of the things that says to me is that nothing can hinder the work of God, for we find no enemy resisting, just God speaking the word of creation and it is done. This is very comforting and shows us that all is going to be okay in the long run.

    In the second account, the end result is Joseph, a man made perfect through suffering, and also the one who saves all his brethren. Here the fall comes when the serpent deceives Eve and through her, Adam. There proceed many difficulties, with stages, many ruling life forms come and go, each one springing up from the death of the former, until at last Joseph arrives. Here a lot of enemies are encountered and the issue seems to hang by a thread at times, but in keeping with the model of the first account, all is accomplished. Well I have been wordy. I hope some of this makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
    Thomas likes this.
  2. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    208
    Unless, of course, that's not how the verse should be translated.
     
  3. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    308
    I'd be open to your perspective, Rabbi.
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    2,024
    Hi Stranger —
    Here's a story.

    There was a certain point in my life when I was, as it were, without course or compass, just drifting along. Doing my job, raising my kids, domestic stuff. Had never heard of the Sophia Perennis, the Traditionalists, Patristic theology ...

    Whenever I or we went shopping, if there was a bookshop I'd hit it. Check out the 'spirituality' section. Rarely anything caught my eye. You soon learned to be selective about what shops (the independent ones) were the best bet ... anyway, we're in a shopping mall in North London, at the time with wife and twin daughters, clothes shopping for them. Busy day, crowds. Saturday shopping is awful. But there's a WHSmith, so while she and daughters are browsing a shop, I dive in. Saw The Sword of Gnosis on the shelf, picked it out, looked through it, the subtitle 'Metaphysics, Cosmology, Tradition, Symbolism' caught my eye. Interesting ...

    ... but time to go. I put the book back, met family waiting outside the shop, we walked away, and with every step my head began to pound until it was really rather painful. I assume a migraine, and I've never had migraines. It was banging. "I've got to buy a book," I said. Turned round, took one step, headache went. Bought the book, never looked back ... it was Marco Pallis on The Veil of the Temple that brought me back into the Catholic Church.

    That book, as they say, changed my life.

    cover.jpg
     
    stranger likes this.
  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    999
    It looks like it's been read through many times.
     
    stranger likes this.
  6. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    308
    Thomas, thanks so much for sharing my brother. Great story. These things do happen. The only experience I had that was close to that was when I once entered a bookstore desperately needing something, but not knowing what, and C.S. Lewis's "A Grief Observed" just stood out to me. Same result as with you. Sometimes we just need something in order to keep going. It's really like a miracle (to us). God knows just the right thing to give us. Hope you have a great day.
     
    RJM Corbet likes this.
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    2,024
    I just looked, and saw 'tatty', 'well-used' versions on Abebooks.co.uk for £500+! :D I'm rich!
     

Share This Page