Hey Thomas, good to speak with you again. His writings are very spiritual, and although I doubt he would ever lay claim to being a mystic, most surely he was that and more. I remember as a young man I was seeing things in his writings that were so frightening to me that I once threw one of his books (Types In Genesis I think) across the room. It's just that what I was seeing there was so contrary to what I was and what I thought I wanted out of life. Yes, I remember gathering from your posts that you were fed from the writings of the Traditionalists. I have only read 2 from there, though I think they were quite good. One was Schuon's main book, "The Transcendent Unity of Religions". The other was from Guenon, "Perspectives On Initiation". The Guenon book was especially heavy reading but good. I have also read "The Sword of Gnosis" which was more of an anthology of quotes from Traditionalist writers. It's hard to get the mind around this "unmanifested and the supra-individual formless states of manifestation". It's so spiritual and timeless, the mind is just helpless in the face of it. Very hard to conceptualize. Somewhere in that non-conceptual and unmanifested state, I just envision us as like children playing, full of joy and fulfilled, so very happy. I envision something living and teeming with life and holy diversity, yet one with God in a way that boggles the human mind which needs to divide and categorize in order to understand. I can understand how it might be seen as two creations, but I really think it is only one... It comes from the timeless realm which is without beginning but fell into time, being trapped there as a way to arrest a falling that would have otherwise had no bottom at all to it. I run out of words here, and really have no certainty, just speaking from what I see in my own heart. From the alchemy created here in this dark world comes the philosopher's stone, or a further perfecting created by the union of opposites. From here, it goes back to God with a capacity for love than transcends it's first estate. I have no idea what I just said. The two accounts... To be honest I would have to go back and look at Jukes on that myself. I just recently came to see the fall in both accounts (it's all one, just looking at it from two perspectives). The first thing that occurred to me concerning the two accounts was what was the end result of each one? In the first, it is the perfect man (adam and eve). We know it is perfect because it is said that on the seventh day God rested from all his works. It's all complete right there. One of the things that says to me is that nothing can hinder the work of God, for we find no enemy resisting, just God speaking the word of creation and it is done. This is very comforting and shows us that all is going to be okay in the long run. In the second account, the end result is Joseph, a man made perfect through suffering, and also the one who saves all his brethren. Here the fall comes when the serpent deceives Eve and through her, Adam. There proceed many difficulties, with stages, many ruling life forms come and go, each one springing up from the death of the former, until at last Joseph arrives. Here a lot of enemies are encountered and the issue seems to hang by a thread at times, but in keeping with the model of the first account, all is accomplished. Well I have been wordy. I hope some of this makes sense.