Why Do People Like To Talk About Their Spiritual Beliefs?

[stranger]

"What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind."

Tony, I was fairly stunned last night when I listened to Reinee Pasarow's (sp) NDE account. Almost thou convinceth me to become a Baha'i.

 

[stranger]

Why do people like to talk about their spiritual beliefs? Why do people want to talk about God -- not only 'believers' but also non-believers and even those who militantly oppose a belief in the divine?

Feels better once you get it out. Why on a forum with other people, or with a friend, or with a group, or in a church. The outside chance/hope that we might bump into one another in the midst of our ships in the night existence. It's a long shot, but it could happen.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

Why do people like to talk about their spiritual beliefs? Why do people want to talk about God -- not only 'believers' but also non-believers and even those who militantly oppose a belief in the divine?

Because we find ourselves boring? Lol! God is the great unknown, the ultimate mystery, the enigma which is quite fun to try and solve... we all love mysteries deep down, perhaps that's God's ultimate love for us is to let us wallow through them as best we can, we'd be bored with the actual truth? GRIN! It's more fun to search than find.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

Reminded me of a quote I just put on another forum. This is what Baha'u'llah offered the world would face;

"What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind."

To me that describes it all in a nutshell.

Regards Tony

Not quite all, The light has shown up and pierces the darkness. It restores balance. This is why Jesus Christ is referred to as the Sun of God, with a terrific pun!

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

These are difficult times for people who believe in 'a higher power' to try to argue science against professionals. It ends with embarrassing mental gymnastics. Scriptural literalism does not meet reality these days?

Well, in some cases literalism has its say, sure. But we know human language can be used in so many ways with metaphor, analogy, double meaning, irony, etc. It has a breadth and depth which I believe scripture does make use of, so literalism alone? Uh, no. It is included however in the vast spectrum of attempting to communicate...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Tony, I was fairly stunned last night when I listened to Reinee Pasarow's (sp) NDE account. Almost thou convinceth me to become a Baha'i.

It is indeed a very amazing story. Ha Ha My wife has had a couple of NDE with her health issues and she has had the out of Body experiences and seing the operation from out of the body.

In the end the journey is personal and each of us must find our own path, so my advice is listen to what others offer, but always weigh that against what the Messenger has offered.

There is no adequate way of explaining the spiritual world, so some persons explanation will always fall short. I always advise people to embrace a Faith only through understanding what the writings say and not via amazing things Faith and life can produce.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Not quite all, The light has shown up and pierces the darkness. It restores balance. This is why Jesus Christ is referred to as the Sun of God, with a terrific pun!

Now one can see the wisdom of why Jesus Christ says He will return upon the clouds.

Clouds prevent us from seeing the Sun in its full splendor.

Regards Tony

 

[stranger]

There is no adequate way of explaining the spiritual world, so some persons explanation will always fall short. I always advise people to embrace a Faith only through understanding what the writings say and not via amazing things Faith and life can produce.

Regards Tony

Yes, I understand. I think Mrs. Pasalow even mentioned that words were not adequate (but she had to try and she did wonderfully). I'm ready I think, Tony. I'm tired and that world she tried to describe as best she could has rest and peace and beauty and love. I thank God for the things he has given me here at the latter end of my life. I just hope I can complete everything in a way that will honor him because I could never be worthy of these gifts.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Yes, I understand. I think Mrs. Pasalow even mentioned that words were not adequate (but she had to try and she did wonderfully). I'm ready I think, Tony. I'm tired and that world she tried to describe as best she could has rest and peace and beauty and love. I thank God for the things he has given me here at the latter end of my life. I just hope I can complete everything in a way that will honor him because I could never be worthy of these gifts.

I think God allows these events as a gift, a bounty for what is already offered in scriptures.

I see your thoughts are our lot in life, to make the effort, but often fail. It is also said that we have to our last breath to make amends. It is all under the Mercy of God.

What I like is that we are told we should never dwell on our failures, but always try to do better.

I have read a lot of NDE experiences and it is amazing how many are in tune with what is written on this topic in the Baha'i Writings.

I wish you all the best in Faith, in life and in the most important aspect, in Love.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Not quite all, The light has shown up and pierces the darkness. It restores balance. This is why Jesus Christ is referred to as the Sun of God, with a terrific pun!

The Sun is a great Metephor when we try to understand and explain the many things related to Jesus and the Station of Christ.

If we look at this world it reflects what transpires spiritually in this material world.

The Sun rises and sets each day.

A day in scripture is that of a Messenger, which is approximately every 1000 years and in that day the Sun rises and the Sun sets and after the night a new Day dawns. The new day is known by a new name, but it is still the same Sun.

Baha'u'llah has offered that the Meanings of Sun can not be exhausted.

"Bahá’u’lláh also gave in detail, in response to the questioner, several meanings pertaining to the word 'sun', adding that this word has so many other meanings that if ten secretaries were to record His explanations for a period of one or two years, He would still not exhaust its significance."

Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 1, p. 29-33

This could be why Baha'u'llah is "Glory of God" in the Station of the Father.

I personally love all the Metephor that the Sun explains. Jesus said he was the Light of the world and to support what was offered above about the 'Day of God' is the following.

In John 8:12 Jesus applies the title to himself while debating with the Jews and states: "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. ... When I am in the world, I am the Light of the World."

Regards Tony

 

[stranger]

Tone, in love we have all these things. We have all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We find healing. A long time ago I wrote a little poem, it was very minimal but strong. I wish I still had it but I don't. It was about love. The only line I can remember at the moment is: "It burns but is not consumed. It burns forevermore."

 

[RJM]

It may also be not wanting to hide the light under a bushel? When I discover a new angle or aspect of God in my own context, a bulb goes on – like: Oh right!

And that becomes something I want to share with others? In ordinary life, not many people are going to be too interested, but on an interfaith website will be those who identify, across faith and religion, and without demanding: Prove it.

As @Cino observed, it can be lonely.

Hopefully this genuine wish to try to explain and share spiritual experience, without being shot down, is what gives a website like this one a value in the world?

 

[RJM]

I’m just wondering if this resonates with anyone else? I came upon it this morning, and it’s a sort of lightbulb thing. Tao surrounds and contains and permeates yin and yang; evil is not the binary opposite of Tao, but is the relative (to us) result of interaction between yin and yang in nature. ‘The Master’ referred to is Confucius:

“The Master said: Writing cannot express words completely. Words cannot express thoughts completely. Are we then unable to see the thoughts of the holy sages?

The Master said: The holy sages set up the images in order to express their thoughts completely; they devised the hexagrams in order to express the true and the false completely. Then they appended judgements and so could express their words completely.

The Creative (yang) and the Receptive (yin) are the real secret of the Changes. Inasmuch as the Creative and the Receptive present themselves as complete, the changes between them are also posited. If the Creative and Receptive were destroyed, there would be nothing by which the changes could be perceived. If there were no more changes to be seen, the effects of the Creative and Receptive would also gradually cease.

Therefore: What is above form is called tao; what is within form is called tool.”

(The I Ching, Richard Wilhelm translation: The Great Treatise XII:2-4)

 

[stranger]

The earth sends electric "feelers" from the ground, reaching toward the charged thunderstorm. The poles are established. The circuit is completed by the lightening strike, which superheats the air through which it travels to a temperature greater than that of the surface of the sun.

 

[stranger]

The spirit always stands at the still point, however, detached from the creative process, arranging that which is good from chaos. The arrangement is done by love, which knows what is good from what is not good, and it pronounces "It is good" when that creative process is in accordance with it.

 

[Thomas]

"At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:27)

This text in Luke is a direct reference to the prophecy in Daniel:
"I beheld therefore in the vision of the night, and lo, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and he came even to the Ancient of Days: and they presented him before him." (Daniel 7:13)

Clouds in the Hebrew Scriptures indicate the appearance of the Lord. His presence in the tabernacle and in the temple is signified by the presence of a cloud (Exodus 40.34-35; 1 Kings 8,10-11; 2 Chronicles 5,13-14). The pillar of cloud also indicates the Lord's presence in Exodus (13:21-22, 14:19).ln Deuteronomy (5:22), the Lord's presence on Sinai is connected with fire, cloud, gloom and darkness. There are further references in Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the Psalms. The coming of the Lord in judgment on the Day of the Lord is with clouds, a figure picked up in the Bookof Revelations.

No being, other than the Lord God, appears with clouds in the Scriptures, not even angels.

Thus, the presence of 'a cloud' is a direct referene to the presence of God, a Divine image, not an angelic or prophetic one.

Note also that at the Transfiguration, Christ is seen flanked by Elias and Moses (signifying the Law and the Prophets) in a dazzling cloud atop the mountain.

Clouds, as an image, serve a dual purpose.

The one is that they obscure, they are a type of veil, insubstantial, and yet impenetrable. In Luke, in the Greek, the Son of Man comes 'with' the clouds of heaven, but we cannot be sure (from the original Aramaic via the Greek, the conjunction is variable) whether He is 'with', or 'in', or 'on' ...

The other is that the cloud denotes not so much something that hides, but rather something without physical form, the Formless, and as such the mental state of knowing, the eye of the mind, is occluded, not because the cloud masks God, but rather there is nothing but the Divine Darkness of a Superabundance of Light — in this sense clouds signify that which is Beyond Knowing.

+++

A reading of the Son of Man and the Ancient of Days could, from a retroactive, Catholic perspective, point to this text in Daniel as a prophecy of the Incarnation, of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, but that would be to read too much into the Prophet.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

"I beheld therefore in the vision of the night, and lo, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and he came even to the Ancient of Days: and they presented him before him." (Daniel 7:13)

The significance of that passage in the Baha'i Writings is reference to the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

This is why Jesus Christ is referred to as the Sun of God, with a terrific pun!

The Sun is a great Metephor when we try to understand and explain the many things related to Jesus and the Station of Christ.

Some would jump upon the Son/Sun wordplay as evidence that Christ the Son is indeed just a recreation of the Sol Invictus sun worship and the Cross a sun-worship symbol -- all ratified and foisted upon the rest of the world by the Emperor Constantine, etc. Son is Filius in Latin and Hyios in Greek , which latter at least comes close to the Greek word for sun: Helios?

 

[Thomas]

The significance of that passage in the Baha'i Writings is reference to the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Interesting ... Does Baha'i exegesis claim divinity for one or both?

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

It may also be not wanting to hide the light under a bushel? When I discover a new angle or aspect of God in my own context, a bulb goes on – like: Oh right!

And that becomes something I want to share with others? In ordinary life, not many people are going to be too interested, but on an interfaith website will be those who identify, across faith and religion, and without demanding: Prove it.

As @Cino observed, it can be lonely.

Hopefully this genuine wish to try to explain and share spiritual experience, without being shot down, is what gives a website like this one a value in the world?

This website has GREAT value! NO ONE takes it down, or there's gunna be heck ta pays I tells ya's!
I just about have another paper finished I am rather excited to share. Hope I don't bore too many for too long....it's cathartic for me personally.