Why is it So?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Tone Bristow-Stagg, May 13, 2021.

  1. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Why is it that many people reject a Message given by God?

    Why is it, at the start of a Message, only a few people except a Message from God?

    Finally, Why is it, that those who beleive there is only One God, make God exclusive?

    Personally I see all these answers are already Written, already given by God and this OP is an opportunity to explore those answers given in Scriptures.

    So how do you see it?

    Regards Tony
     
  2. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    @Tone Bristow-Stagg -

    You’re too transparent, my friend. You’re not really asking a general question. You’re really asking why others do not accept the founder of your faith as a messenger of G-d.
     
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  3. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    I have already made that statement in the opening post, so I see that is not applicable.

    As such It is both, it is a question for each to answer and I already have, I have stated I see the answers are available. Also when I look at the bigger picture, I see I am less than the black in the eye of a dead ant, thus I see it has naught to do with me, except that I choose to see One God for all humanity in all people. Thus I am not in any way special, or above any other person on this planet, I am part of it all.

    So how do you see the One God? How do you answer those questions to all that have interaction with you?

    Regards Tony
     
  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    My thoughts:

    Many people will already have one, and won't see the necessity for yet another one.

    Those who don't have one won't be interested.

    Only a tiny fraction are seekers, evaluating multiple faiths and messages and systems. Of those, only a fraction will be attracted to the Baha'i Faith.

    My opinions, no disrespect intended.

    From the outside, the picture is one of an intriguing multiplicity of new messages within the past 200 years alone. For a believer, I can imagine it might be bewildering, and to stick to a tried-and-proven one, could be a sensible use of one's time: there are so many other things demanding attention, earning money, raising families, tending to real estate, or garden, or other social engagements. I think than only a minority are into the fine details of religions the way we around here are.

    There is a list of about 500 new religious movements on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements

    Roughly two a year. Only very few will keep up with that rate of revelation.

    Comes with the territory, I think. If there is only one God, there can't be another one, which is basically the main property of exclusivity.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  5. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    A continuation of the tower of Babel principle. A necessary thing and a curse all at the same time. When does it stop with regard to all mankind? I don't know. When does it stop for the individual? When more/better revelation and more love manifest. I see myself at the moment in 3 different camps, but I am simple minded. One could be split into many more... but the cure is the same, I think.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  6. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    What you have offered is indeed the reality we face.

    Personally I see this only proves the wisdom and shows me the Truth of what is recorded in the scriptures. The warnings about false claims are of this magnitude, but thre is a promise that amongst the false, there is Truth that will unfold. Those same scriptures tell us how to determine who is a true prophet.

    Personally, it is not logical for me to say that there is One God, and then choose not see that One God in all things. To me in seperating God into a single exclusive vision, that in itself, is paramount to making at least two God's. The God of one's own faith and the God everyone else has made.

    I can see no other way to the Unity of Humanity, the acceptance of our Oneness. For us to embrace each other as one human family, I see lays within accepting that we all came from the same source.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    I have considered this for many years, as many others would have as well. I see the only solution lays within the acceptance of a single source of our existence, which in turn cements the Oneness of Humanity.

    Is it a pipe dream? I definitely say no, I see it is unfolding. Every event that is now happening, is a guide that shows us we will only survive, if we help each other.

    Regards Tony
     
  8. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Are social engagements and religion apples and oranges or different varieties of apples? Not sure I would separate the two so completely from one another.
     
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  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    I was pitting social engagements against keeping up with the latest trends in new religious movements.
     
  10. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Tony, as regards the human collective, I generally agree. I just don't know how it is to unfold. To force the issue artificially is to court the disaster that the confusion of tongues guards against (building a monstrous and fallen religious structure). It could be that particular door will swing wide open at some point for mankind.

    I believe the door is open right now for the individual believer (or even non-believer). So, for instance if I (and other individuals) could find a way to reconcile the disparate camps that my belief falls under without forcing some kind of artificial synthesis that would probably be an indicator of how it is to happen for mankind at large.

    The difficulty is that I think I must pass through death in some form in order for this to occur. The difficulties encountered in attempting a true synthesis are too much for our busy intellects alone. As far as the world at large is concerned, will it have to end in order to be reborn? A mystical ending or an actual physical destruction? These are the things I think about and wish I had better answers for.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Ask yourself that? Why reject traditional religions, in favour of yours?
     
  12. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    It is you that are offering that stance.

    I see the origin of all Faith is of the One same God, the same spiritual foundations, I personally reject none of them.

    Regards Tony
     
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  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I personally do not like the Baha'i message because its primary focus seems to be upon building a new world order conforming to the tenets of the Baha'i religion -- however nicely phrased in flowery text.

    Traditional religions are more focussed upon preparing man's soul for whatever comes after his short life on earth, than upon working to create a perfect temporal earth?

    Trying to make the world a better place by acts of charity etc, is a natural offshoot of following the first commandment, but it is not really the primary focus of traditional religions?

    Lucifer too is the light bringer. The antiChrist. The new world order. Absolutely no disrespect intended. But my thoughts on the opening line of the OP ...
     
  14. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Tony:

    "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all." -- Ecclesiastes 11:5

    The answers are not found in rejection but in finding the proper place for everything under the sun. The wise man once said:

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

    A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

    A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

    A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

    A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

    A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

    A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

    What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?

    I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

    He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end
    . -- Ecclesiastes 3:1-11
     
  15. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    The lesser peace a prelude to a future peaceful new world order will not be built by Baha'i's, there is a hint as to how it will come about, it maybe that others may also offer this is flowery language?

    “9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
    “‘Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    10 your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.“

    I do not personally see any Baha'i asking any person of any Faith to conform to the Message given by Baha'u'llah, there is no compulsion in religion.

    I would offer, that I see what Baha'u'llah offered, can also be found in all God's Faiths.

    Regards Tony
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  16. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Okay.

    Still assumes some things.

    Assumes the average Joe is in a place where church and state are separate - a place where new religious movements can go unnoticed because they have no bearings on said person's everyday social engagements.

    Fair enough.

    But . . .

    Could you imagine saying this in first century Jerusalem, where the average Joe couldn't help but notice a new religious movement? The same can be said for many other places today in our modern world.

    Going back to the original question . . .

    Is this always the case? Abdu'l-Baha estimated that "at the time of Bahá’u’lláh’s ascension, more than two hundred thousand souls" had accepted his message.

    It's new. Anything new is challenged and resisted. Bitcoin is an example. It was rejected by institutions. Now many accept it. We are a people of habit. People don't change their behavior because one person says so. They have to see for themselves. See the lived example and the fruit it produces over time.
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I meant no offence. I was offering my thoughts, as requested.

    Do I find the language of the Lord's Prayer flowery? The opposite: I find it about as pithy and concise as anything ever written.

    Obviously most cannot read Baha'u'allah in the original Persian, so I do think it a pity the language of English translations is not more accessible. But that's just me, obviously.

    Again, no offence was intended
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Rather, I'm asking if you can see that by telling me that Christianity has fundamentally misunderstood the message of Christ, that although we believe in the One God, we have it wrong ... whereas we, of course, rather see the error as yours ...
     
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Absolutely, I can imagine average Joe noticing the new religious movements. There is the story of Hanukkah, a couple of centuries earlier, about one particularly ill-fated attempt at establishing such a new religion in Jerusalem. There were still plenty of hellenizing Jews in Jerusalem in the first century. There were Roman troops, bringing all kinds of new religions from all over the empire to Jerusalem. Average Joe probably noticed them, but did he have time and inclination to learn about them all, test them, ...? Probably not. He had a living to earn, social obligations to fulfill, a family to care for. He probably found all these things more important than finding out whether Mithras had a new message from God for him, or Isis, or Hercules, or Simon the magician, or the Cynic itinerant preachers, or the teachings of the Stoa, or the Pythagoreans, or the Mazdakites. He probably wanted to stay out of trouble, and was wary of all these potentially disruptive ideas, and if at all, most likely torn between loyalty to the temple priest-kings who were however collaborating with the Roman occupiers, and the do-it-yourself movement of the sages...

    And today, it is just the same. Average Joe just wants to do right by his neighbors and his god(s), participate in some broadly accepted religion, and get on with life. He doesn't want to alienate friends, family, employers, and customers by joining what might be perceived as a foreign cult.

    Seekers are few in any age, is what I'm saying.
     
  20. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Thank you and I did appreciate you meant no offence. My habit of saying little, almost always comes across blunt and obnoxious, though that is never the aim.

    I read my post to you again this morning and saw how rude it would have seemed to you, thus I reworded it, as that was not the intent.

    The Baha'i Writings are translated in the style of King James English as the Guardian Shoghi Effendi found that English best reflected the original flow of the Arabic and Persian language.

    The translated writings are free and available at Bahai.org or the direct link is here; https://www.bahai.org/library/

    So maybe it is the King James English you find hard to read? My first bible was all King James English.

    Sorry if I offended you.

    Regards Tony
     
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