Help finding the source for a quote?

Fry

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This is on the Wikipedia page for Jahannam:

"In later centuries, Sufis did not even find it acceptable for one to ask for Heaven in the hope of meeting God or to do good in fear of Hell."

However it is unsourced and seems to be quoted many places, but I can't find a source.

I'd be interested in the source, or even anything confirming what it imparts. Please and thank you.
 

stranger

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This is on the Wikipedia page for Jahannam:

"In later centuries, Sufis did not even find it acceptable for one to ask for Heaven in the hope of meeting God or to do good in fear of Hell."

However it is unsourced and seems to be quoted many places, but I can't find a source.

I'd be interested in the source, or even anything confirming what it imparts. Please and thank you.

Yes, Fry. One source I know of is my beloved Rabi'a Basri:

"O God! if I worship Thee in fear of Hell, burn me in Hell; and if I worship Thee in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise; but if I worship Thee for Thine own sake, withhold not thine everlasting beauty."

Her body of work is small but there is no scholar who moves me like she can. I have a more visceral way of conceptualizing than most people do, but when I conceptualize Rabi'a I see her spirit as a dark-eyed, dusky beauty, like ascending smoke which still contains the heat of the fire.

Really, it's about motivation and the implication is that the possibility of being consumed by love is the highest motivation of all. Hell and Paradise become distant memories in the face of an all-consuming love. Very powerful.

A question about motivations, from a contemporary source:

Did you do it for love?
Did you do it for money?
Did you do it for spite?
Did you have to honey?
Who is going to make it?
We'll find out, in the long run.

The Eagles

(working from memory there, might have misquoted)
 

Fry

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Yes, Fry. One source I know of is my beloved Rabi'a Basri:

"O God! if I worship Thee in fear of Hell, burn me in Hell; and if I worship Thee in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise; but if I worship Thee for Thine own sake, withhold not thine everlasting beauty."

Her body of work is small but there is no scholar who moves me like she can. I have a more visceral way of conceptualizing than most people do, but when I conceptualize Rabi'a I see her spirit as a dark-eyed, dusky beauty, like ascending smoke which still contains the heat of the fire.

Really, it's about motivation and the implication is that the possibility of being consumed by love is the highest motivation of all. Hell and Paradise become distant memories in the face of an all-consuming love. Very powerful.

A question about motivations, from a contemporary source:

Did you do it for love?
Did you do it for money?
Did you do it for spite?
Did you have to honey?
Who is going to make it?
We'll find out, in the long run.

The Eagles

(working from memory there, might have misquoted)

Thank you! I just read her wikipedia page. Interesting lady! I'm wondering if there is any connection between the notion in my op and the notion of everything but God being an illusion?
 

stranger

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Thank you! I just read her wikipedia page. Interesting lady! I'm wondering if there is any connection between the notion in my op and the notion of everything but God being an illusion?

Hi again. IMO you would not be wrong in saying so. It just depends on how far you want to go with it. In order to think and use mental cogitations we must conceptualize. I conceptualize the temporal as being "the illusion", and the eternal as being "the real".

The temporal is real here in space and time, but via comparison to the eternal you could make the case that it is but an illusion. The eternal is even spoken of as an illusion by some, who cling to the temporal as the only firm reality. It can get really confusing, as it has for me at this moment. ;)

I consider the temporal creation to be an extrusion from God, and a necessary one for the furtherance of those he loves. This temporal existence with all it's pain, will in the long run add to the capacity for love in the spirits anchored here (us) for the moment. As I enjoy playing with words sometimes, I call it a "temporal extrusion". The purpose of it is to increase our joy and experience of love to heights never known before. And this would go on forever.

But yes, I think you are not too far off with your comments. It just depends on perspective I think.
 
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Fry

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Hi again. IMO you would not be wrong in saying so. It just depends on how far you want to go with it. In order to think and use mental cogitations we must conceptualize. I conceptualize the temporal as being "the illusion", and the eternal as being "the real".

The temporal is real here in space and time, but via comparison to the eternal you could make the case that it is but an illusion. The eternal is even spoken of as an illusion by some, who cling to the temporal as the only firm reality. It can get really confusing, as it has for me at this moment. ;)

I consider the temporal creation to be an extrusion from God, and a necessary one for the furtherance of those he loves. This temporal existence with all it's pain, will in the long run add to the capacity for love in the spirits anchored here (us) for the moment. As I enjoy playing with words sometimes, I call it a "temporal extrusion". The purpose of it is to increase our joy and experience of love to heights never known before. And this would go on forever.

But yes, I think you are not too far off with your comments. It just depends on perspective I think.

Thanks for the reply. I think this is a very intelligent position. Whenever it is stated that everything, without exception, is God, then a lot of fears, wants, etc. cease to be rational. So, to accept that all is God, truly accept it literally and all of the implications of that statement, would be to cease to hope for heaven or try to avoid hell.

A few more quotes on the matter:

Vincent Cornell argues that the Quran provides a monist image of God by describing reality as a unified whole, with God being a single concept that would describe or ascribe all existing things.

...

Some Sufi mystics advocate monism. One of the most notable being the 13th-century Persian poet Rumi (1207–73) in his didactic poem Masnavi espoused monism. Rumi says in the Masnavi,

"In the shop for Unity (wahdat); anything that you see there except the One is an idol."

...

The most influential of the Islamic monists was the Sufi philosopher Ibn Arabi (1165–1240). He developed the concept of 'unity of being' (Arabic: wahdat al-wujud), which some argue is a monistic philosophy.
-Wikipedia on Monism
 

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Thanks for the reply. I think this is a very intelligent position. Whenever it is stated that everything, without exception, is God, then a lot of fears, wants, etc. cease to be rational. So, to accept that all is God, truly accept it literally and all of the implications of that statement, would be to cease to hope for heaven or try to avoid hell.

A few more quotes on the matter:

I like to think of it as the surrender of the entire being to love/to God. To be called by love is to longed for by a lover, to use the language of Sufis. This longing meets our longing within (and we all have it) to be loved and to love. And so the fire begins, which ultimately will consume us, fill our entire being. Except... this fire will never go out, it will consume us in ecstasy throughout eternity. Where it leads soon becomes unimportant. If it leads to monism, that is of no consequence to me. I leave such conceptual things to scholars. It's something new, the trading of concept for reality. Reality teaches like no wordy essay ever could. The teaching of reality is visceral and immediate and is like being immersed in a baptism of fire.
 
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