Divine Ruler! Is there Such A Thing?

Postmaster

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Do you believe that political leaders, like Kings, dictators and presidents are divine and chosen by God to do good? Or maybe in some cases?

President Bush has this attitude as an ultra Catholic..

But my question is, how can any Divine figure be responsible for so many deaths and horrors, in the name of Good? That it seems is a contradiction.

 
Read first 2 pages couldn't see anything about divine leaders. Will take a closer look when my eyes go back to normal :confused: Anyone to make a fast comment in here?
 
Keep reading hehe....it gets more interesting. I particularly am fond of Quahom1's post let me snag it to show you.

Quahom1 Wasn't all this in the context that any man who loves another more than God shall lose all? In the end times it is clear that man will become more and more a lover of self. One can not put one's spiritual salvation into the hands of another human being. The result is invariably failure, which results in resentment and eventually hatred.

Also, there is a big difference between persecution and war. To fight a holy war would be un-Christian. A secular war is not quite the same. A war to stop the persecution of others is not the same.

Romans 13:1-5 (RSV):
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
4 For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


I can pull many paragraphs from the Old and New testament that justify one righteous nation going against an unrighteous one. In fact the Bible is explicit in instructions on how to pick the soldiers, officers and Generals, how they are to be divisioned, how to lay seige to a city, and what not to do. There are rules of conduct that the righteous nation's armies must adhere to, else lose the grace of God.

One might say that war is from the old testament times. I agree completely. That does not mean we should forget how to wage it, because regardless of some of humanity's enlightened state, the rest of the world is still living in the Old Testatment ways.

What is worse than an evil man? A good man who does nothing to stop evil.

v/r

Q

It essentially says that God elects our governments leaders. He is the one that gives them the authority. So I believe that we do in fact have leaders appointed by God to do Gods business. Are they divine? I dont believe that no.
 
Thanks for your reply. But surely this can't apply to every leader other wise its like saying Hitler was put in that position by God. And funny enough some people thought he was.
 
I guess there's a two-fold answer to the question -

Q1. do social leaders work within the mechanics of Divinity?
Q2. are social leaders themselves Divine?

Q1 seems to invite the whole "Free Will" issue - while 2 seems to suggest issues of social control that usurpers were especially keen to exploit. :)
 
Dear PM

I agree with Brian, it is about divine will and human will.

All are chosen and ordained but few choose to listen, so for instance the divine can ask me to fly to Florence to bless the waters but it is my free will whether I choose to align my human will to do GOD's will-to-good compelled by love into compassionate action.

The test on how do we know if it is GOD's will the response is simple IS it good? As far as I am concerned there is only one true law and they are spiritual and universal laws not man made. I have a lovely piece on justice which I will track down and share with you.

In some circumstances I have also learnt that when it is divine will the opportunty comes to you without you doing anything. For instance I was running a Reiki training course and a lady on the course then introduced me to a government agency, within a year I was running corporate workshops for health and education workers and introduced a new 'Empowerment Model' to underprivileged families. This is GOD's work......not hitting on Iraq in my eyes and heart.

And by the fruits of their zealous good works you shall know them.

being love

Sacredstar
 
Here is an old post (24/05/04) of mine from another forum on justice.

Dear All

Over recent weeks I have been receiving more teachngs about 'Justice' and what that really means. In the past we have thought of it in terms of right and wrong but it has been shown to me that this represents imbalance.

We often associate the sword of truth with the word justice but yet the sword of truth is a double edged sword. We all know that this can hurt and heal and that it is only through communicating from the heart will our voices be heard, heard in a way that can vibrate straight into the hearts of man. The sword also symbolises psychic decisveness and divine law of the universe. It represents the word of GOD, that which is true and just.

So what is this word justice that Master Jesus, Solomon and other great teachers down the ages tried to teach us, it is about being unbiased, being fair and hearing both sides of the story. Giving people the benefit of the doubt, trusting that all is for our highest good and that there is goodness in everyone and every situation no matter how painful at the time. JC taught us that forgiveness is the way and love is the result.

Justice for all not just one, for there to be true justice
The scales must be balanced in equilibrium.
Unity consciousness is about allowing and accepting, ensuring that everyone wins and that there are no losers. Ensuing that suffering does not remain in any domain and so this brings us back to alignment of cultures, religions and peoples. All paths leading us home to the source of the true power of manifesting justice for all.

Archangel Michael taught us that many situations are judged on what they appear to be instead of what they truly are; resulting from our own perceptions and clouded consciousness.

So the message is to encourage us to use the sword to co-create justice but in a way that creates harmonious circumstances, environment and positivity for all.

Through the wisdom of Sophia the heart of GOD the divine feminine principle, that is why the sword of truth and scales of justice are always represented and held by a woman. The divine feminine symbol of liberty and freedom.

It is the GODDESS within that brings forth the wisdom and gnosis in both men and women.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alexandrian Gnostic teacher Epiphanes

On Justice

Where does Justice lie?

In a community of equalties.

A common sky stretches above our heads and covers the entire earth with its immensity, the same night reveals its stars to all without discrimination, the same sun, father of night and begetter of day, shines in the sky for all men equally. It is common to all, rich men and beggars, kings and subjects, wise men and fools, free men and slaves.

GOD made it pour out its light for all the beings on this earth in order that it would be of common benefit to all: who would dare to appropriate the light so the sun to himself alone?.....

And everything exists, everything lives, is subject to this law of justice and equality....As for the laws of this world, it is they and they alone which have taught us to act against the law. Individual laws fragment and destroy communion with divine law.

The prophet said: "I had not known sin, but by the law", and how we interpret this meaning, if it be not the words of "mine" and "thine" have entered into this world through the laws, and that this made an end to all community?

Nevertheless, that which GOD created, he created for all to hold in common possession: vines, grains, and all the fruits of the earth. Has the vine ever been to chase away a thief? or thievish passer by? But when man forgot that community means equality, and deformed it by its laws, on that day, the thief was born.

Stephan Hoeller says that these words may be too simple for the complex and overpopulated world wherein we live, where the pestiferous horrors of crime, violence, mass insanity, the innumerable depredations of humans directed against humans distort all perspectives. Nevertheless, they are the words of vision, intuition and individuation. They are the words of spiritual perception which rightly recognises that lawlessness is frequently brought about by the excess of law, and sin and evil brought into the world by the midwifery of taboos and commandments.

There is no true morality without freedom.

and Lao Tzu

The more taboos and prohibitions there are in the world
The poorer people will be
The more sharp weapons the people have
The more troubled the start will be
The more cunning and skill man possesses,
The more vicious things will appear
The more law and orders are made prominent
The more thieves and robbers there will be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So might we return to the life of simplicity and live by the cosmic laws taken away from us by the powers that be which includes the church of Rome.

Love beyond measure

Kim xx
 
Postmaster said:
Thanks for your reply. But surely this can't apply to every leader other wise its like saying Hitler was put in that position by God. And funny enough some people thought he was.
If you are familiar with the OT and Gods dealings with the Jewish nation it has not always been roses for them. If you are familiar with the prophecies regarding Gods promises and then the fulfillment in Revelation with the 144,000 of the tribes of Judah then you will know that their lives have been hell. Now one could say that God put into place figures of authority that were meant to fulfill those prophecies as tragic as they are but everything that has happened has led them to this point where they are now in possession of their homeland which God promised to them.. and they will never lose it again or how it is written that they will be called back to their homeland you see this in the news everyday how they are returning from all over the world. It will also come to the point where their temple will be rebuilt. As lucky as they are to be Gods chosen people.. how hard it would be to have to live in a world surrounded by people who hate them and the atrocities inflicted on them because of that fact. Not everything that God does seems right. I just know that he knows better than I. I think a mistake people make that I disagree with is that the God of the OT cannot possibly be the God of the NT.. He is the same God with one major difference and that is Jesus. Sometimes bad things happen to people for the greater good. Look at the sacrifice that Jesus made. Dont you think that was pre-planned by God? Do you not think that he hardened the hearts of the pharisees and saducees so that final act could be accomplished? I dont ever limit God on what he should or could do because he is God and its not my place to question Him.
 
Although I respect everyone's opinions in this matter, I have to disagree with justifying human ambitions through "Divine" will. It's pretentious to say the least, and it rarely if ever yields a healthy outcome (other than arguably serving some higher purpose). To me, there is no such thing as divine rule or a divine ruler. No human system can be perfect or above question, and politics is a human system.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Look at the sacrifice that Jesus made. Dont you think that was pre-planned by God? Do you not think that he hardened the hearts of the pharisees and saducees so that final act could be accomplished? I dont ever limit God on what he should or could do because he is God and its not my place to question Him.

I agree with the scholars no sacrifice was made. No death is pre-planned by GOD, all is chosen by the soul pre-incarnation that is the greatest gift that GOD gave us free will to choose.

It was the objective of Jesus to melt the hearts of the priests not to harden them, they were already hardened which is why Jesus tried to get them to walk their talk. But alas Paul wrote that Jesus made mistakes in the way he handled things, so yes he was human too!

Well GOD likes to be questioned which is why he gave you intellect and intelligence but that does not mean he will always respond in the way that we would like or when we like.

Blessings in abundance

Sacredstar
 
Sacredstar said:
Dear Mirrorinthefog

Do you consider that you are divine and human?

being love

Sacredstar
Dear Sacredstar

I'm not going to rule out the possibility, it certainly may be that I'm both divine and human. But, I don't think that should be used as an excuse for my behavior, desgins or personal shortcommings, and it shouldn't place me above or below anyone else in social, political, economic, or intellectual status. After all, it is merely a possibility and not a bona-fide fact, in my humble opinion...it being so would defeat the purpose of spirituality, as religion and the divine, as I believe, are beyond the physical thus can't be measured by tangible means-"faith" is precisely what makes divinity valid or invalid as a concept. Once it is limited by human perception and confined by iron-clad laws manipulated by humanity, it becomes corrupt.


Bah...I'm rambling...Sorry :eek: This is just my two cent's of course, you're more than welcome to disagree :D
 
Dear Mirrorinthefog,

mirrorinthefog said:
I'm not going to rule out the possibility, it certainly may be that I'm both divine and human. But, I don't think that should be used as an excuse for my behavior, desgins or personal shortcommings, and it shouldn't place me above or below anyone else in social, political, economic, or intellectual status.

I understand and agree with you on the above statement all are equal and unique through GOD's eyes.

blessings in abundance

Sacredstar
 
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