@Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi
Looks about right to me. I believe the Coptic Christians in Egypt believe Pilate was "saved".
Looks about right to me. I believe the Coptic Christians in Egypt believe Pilate was "saved".
30 verses of Bible say " Jesus did not die on the Cross".
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Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi
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Now, I will wait for your replies and comments.
V – Duration of Crucifixion
The duration of crucifixion or the period of time for which Jesus remained on the Cross was not long enough to warrant his death on the Cross. Criminals generally took several days to die a lingering death on the cross on account of the loss of blood from the wounds on hands and feet, the physical pain, and the pangs of hunger and thirst. The minimum time of death on the cross ranged between 24 and 28 hours, but in some cases, it took several days to die on the cross. In such cases, it became necessary to break the legs of the criminals so that death may be hastened and consummated.
Let us now probe into the matter of Jesus’s crucifixion. The New Testament tells us that Jesus remained on the cross for a few hours only. The actual duration of time Jesus remained on the cross was not more than three or four hours. Jesus Christ who was in the prime of his youth (33 years) and enjoyed excellent health, could not be expected to have died within so short a time. Especially as his legs were not broken as was done in the case of the two robbers crucified with him on the same day.
It may not be out of place here to note that, according to the Roman calendar the day began with the rising of the sun and ended with its setting. The same custom is in vogue even to this day in Arab countries. According to John (19:14), it was about the sixth hour of the day (Friday) that Pilate spoke last to the Jews vis-a-vis Jesus' crucifixion and handed him over to them.
“And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, LAMA SABACHTHANI, My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:33, 34)
This shows that Jesus retained his consciousness up to the ninth hour of the day and then he fell into a swoon, which the New Testament writers call “giving up the ghost”.
None of the writers were present on the spot to stand as an eye-witness. The ‘swoon’ was taken to be ‘death’ and ‘death on the cross’ means an accursed death. Do we not read in the Bible,
“for he that is hanged is accursed of God”. (Deut. 21: 23).
What an audacity on the part of Christians to call a true prophet of God and accursed of God.
V – Duration of Crucifixion
The duration of crucifixion or the period of time for which Jesus remained on the Cross was not long enough to warrant his death on the Cross. Criminals generally took several days to die a lingering death on the cross on account of the loss of blood from the wounds on hands and feet, the physical pain, and the pangs of hunger and thirst. The minimum time of death on the cross ranged between 24 and 28 hours, but in some cases, it took several days to die on the cross. In such cases, it became necessary to break the legs of the criminals so that death may be hastened and consummated.
Let us now probe into the matter of Jesus’s crucifixion. The New Testament tells us that Jesus remained on the cross for a few hours only. The actual duration of time Jesus remained on the cross was not more than three or four hours. Jesus Christ who was in the prime of his youth (33 years) and enjoyed excellent health, could not be expected to have died within so short a time. Especially as his legs were not broken as was done in the case of the two robbers crucified with him on the same day.
It may not be out of place here to note that, according to the Roman calendar the day began with the rising of the sun and ended with its setting. The same custom is in vogue even to this day in Arab countries. According to John (19:14), it was about the sixth hour of the day (Friday) that Pilate spoke last to the Jews vis-a-vis Jesus' crucifixion and handed him over to them.
“And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, LAMA SABACHTHANI, My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:33, 34)
This shows that Jesus retained his consciousness up to the ninth hour of the day and then he fell into a swoon, which the New Testament writers call “giving up the ghost”.
None of the writers were present on the spot to stand as an eye-witness. The ‘swoon’ was taken to be ‘death’ and ‘death on the cross’ means an accursed death. Do we not read in the Bible,
“for he that is hanged is accursed of God”. (Deut. 21: 23).
What an audacity on the part of Christians to call a true prophet of God and accursed of God.
"The minimum time of death on the cross ranged between 24 and 28 hours". Source please.
and you know this, how exactly?
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This conclusions is not justified. Pilate was forced to allow the crucifixion to keep the peace and avoid a riot or civil confrontation that would reflect badly on his ability as governor. The fact Pilate was unhappy about allowing the crucifixion does not mean Jesus did not die on the cross.
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While presented as fact, this is entirely speculation. Like any conspiracy theory, it can seem to hang together if a person wants to believe it. But like any conspiracy theory there is no evidence. This does not say Jesus did not die on the cross. Sorry, again no strike.
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This shows a complete misunderstanding of the mission of Christ and the meaning of the crucifixion. There are libraries of literature about it. Christ was the last blood sacrifice. By death on the cross he lowered himself to the lowest level of humanity, and then in rising he uplifted the poor and broken hearted, to whom his mission was mainly directed. The crucifixion is full of mystery.
Again: if Jesus had lost consciousness on the cross, he would have suffocated.
Again: Jesus was pierced through with a spear to make sure he was dead.
So again: nice try, but far from evidence that Jesus did not die on the cross, imo
A better grounding in New Testament scripture would seem to be required before drawing these conclusions.
It's just conspiracy theory, fake news imo ...
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As a neutral in this discussion, I do find this idea to be of interest. Perhaps Pilate considered the followers of Jesus to be a useful counterweight to the more militant Jews? A little bit of divide and conquer would justify some underhand tactics. Jesus is often depicted with a face bloodied by the crown of thorns. A handy disguise perhaps?
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Just out of curiosity, as I have no stakes in this discussion: What, if any, are the Christian and Muslim views on the ascensions of Enoch and Elija? Don't want to derail the discussion, just thoght this was an interesting context to ask the question, as there seem to be some parralels to the case of Jesus.
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He was also beaten-up and flogged and forced to carry his cross, exhausted and losing blood
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There wasn't much time to plan all this, was there?
He didn't choose it. The Jews arrested Jesus and bought him to Pilate for judgement
It was used to embalm the dead, not to bring an unconscious person back to life.
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
John 19:39-40 KJV Read full chapter
This assumes Christ lied to his followers. Jesus was a sinless man born of a virgin, according to the Quran. It also goes completely against the nature of the Jesus of the Gospels, and directly contradicts them
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Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi
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Sorry, I am reposting here, from today's reply from the Islam section, as I think it will be good information for my Christian friends. So, they can comment and reply, in both sections Islam and Christianity.
It’s not a mystery! It’s a misconception taken from St Paul’s version of interpretation…At Garden of Gethsemane, the prayers were to save from accursed death…He said “Take this cup away from me”…so God sent an angel to strengthen him…of what?… to be confident that whatsoever trial he will face…he will survive and escape from the death…He showed his anger to the disciples' post-crucifixion event at the UPPER ROOM, that look at my hands and feet, it has a hole due to crucifixion…he allowed them to touch his body to feel he is not a Ghost or spook…(disciples thought he was a ghost…written in the Bible)…he said I am the same person…I told you this thing will happen to me (the sign of Jonah)…and you have forgotten all these…when they could not believe…Jesus then asked them to bring food…and he ate before them… it was a demonstration! For what? He was trying to prove that he did not die and his body is not a resurrected body. Does resurrected body eat broiled fish and honeycomb?
….See you all are taking these verses in a different direction and making the story in your own way (I know it's not you but it's St Paul, who is the real founder of Christianity)…We believe Jesus did his best to make his point but you all have misunderstood and de-tracked from the original teachings of Jesus.
It’s not a mystery! It’s a misconception taken from St Paul’s version of interpretation…At Garden of Gethsemane, the prayers were to save from accursed death…He said “Take this cup away from me”…so God sent an angel to strengthen him…of what?… to be confident that whatsoever trial he will face…he will survive and escape from the death…He showed his anger to the disciples' post-crucifixion event at the UPPER ROOM, that look at my hands and feet, it has a hole due to crucifixion…he allowed them to touch his body to feel he is not a Ghost or spook…(disciples thought he was a ghost…written in the Bible)…he said I am the same person…I told you this thing will happen to me (the sign of Jonah)…and you have forgotten all these…when they could not believe…Jesus then asked them to bring food…and he ate before them… it was a demonstration! For what? He was trying to prove that he did not die and his body is not a resurrected body. Does resurrected body eat broiled fish and honeycomb?
….See you all are taking these verses in a different direction and making the story in your own way (I know it's not you but it's St Paul, who is the real founder of Christianity)…We believe Jesus did his best to make his point but you all have misunderstood and de-tracked from the original teachings of Jesus.
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Please don't post duplicate posts in the future. This place is so small, a person can follow all posts to all forums comfortably.
What about non- Christians, any chance their questions might get answered?
Never understood the point of these arguments. Both sides engage, things get heated and everyone leaves with the exact same opinion they came in with, just a little more angry at the other side. Pointless, especially on an interfaith forum.
Believe as you see fit, but don't cast stones at the other guy or attempt to discredit the text they follow for doing the same. That's not interfaith.
Believe as you see fit, but don't cast stones at the other guy or attempt to discredit the text they follow for doing the same. That's not interfaith.
You may well be right. I have never seen the point of entering into a discussion without accepting the possibility that you may change your mind. I have never been overly fond of certainty. But that's just my take on things.
Oh, absolutely. Thing is, going by this and other threads the OP has started the short time he's been an IO member, it's pretty clear there's no interest in discussion, only twisting scripture in a feeble attempt to discredit Christianity. Well, nothing new there. Seen it here far too often, not to mention numerous Biblical accounts of Satan trying the same ploy with Jesus. I only hope the OP understands his own scripture better than he does ours.
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VI – Coming Out of Blood and Water
“Then came the soldiers and brake the legs of the first and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water”. (John 19: 3-234)
The soldiers did not break the legs of Jesus for they took him for a dead man while actually, he was in a state of swoon, or just to silence the angry Jews he was declared be a ‘dead’ man. But one of the soldiers incidentally “pierced his side and forthwith there came out blood and water”, which is a surer sign of life for blood and water do not come out of a dead man’s body. There is much food for thought here for those who care to ponder over it.
“Then came the soldiers and brake the legs of the first and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water”. (John 19: 3-234)
The soldiers did not break the legs of Jesus for they took him for a dead man while actually, he was in a state of swoon, or just to silence the angry Jews he was declared be a ‘dead’ man. But one of the soldiers incidentally “pierced his side and forthwith there came out blood and water”, which is a surer sign of life for blood and water do not come out of a dead man’s body. There is much food for thought here for those who care to ponder over it.
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VII – No Eye-Witness of Crucifixion
Three writers of the Gospels state that there was darkness over all the land from the sixth to the ninth hour and that there was an earthquake and the rocks were rent and the veil of the temple was rent in twain. It is a matter of common experience at the time of a severe dust-storm accompanied by an earthquake, people generally hasten to go home and they do not enjoy the luxury of a bloody sight-seeing. Now imagine for a moment, who could stand as an eye-witness to tell the story that Jesus actually died on the cross. The Jews, if, at all, there were any on the spot, must have run away at the sight of the rising storm and the shaking of the earth must have frightened them to turn on their heels and hasten to their homes. As to the disciples they had already fled from the scene of the crucifixion.
“Peter began to curse and to swear saying, l know not this man (Jesus) of whom you speak” (Mark 14:50)
“And they forsook him (Jesus) and fled” (Mark 14:71)
To be brief, there was no one present on the scene who could definitely and certainly say that he saw Jesus ‘giving up the ghost’. This is all mere conjecture and imagination.
Three writers of the Gospels state that there was darkness over all the land from the sixth to the ninth hour and that there was an earthquake and the rocks were rent and the veil of the temple was rent in twain. It is a matter of common experience at the time of a severe dust-storm accompanied by an earthquake, people generally hasten to go home and they do not enjoy the luxury of a bloody sight-seeing. Now imagine for a moment, who could stand as an eye-witness to tell the story that Jesus actually died on the cross. The Jews, if, at all, there were any on the spot, must have run away at the sight of the rising storm and the shaking of the earth must have frightened them to turn on their heels and hasten to their homes. As to the disciples they had already fled from the scene of the crucifixion.
“Peter began to curse and to swear saying, l know not this man (Jesus) of whom you speak” (Mark 14:50)
“And they forsook him (Jesus) and fled” (Mark 14:71)
To be brief, there was no one present on the scene who could definitely and certainly say that he saw Jesus ‘giving up the ghost’. This is all mere conjecture and imagination.
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