Why do you need Jesus? He saves you from what?

[RJM]

Was Jesus The Only Begotten Son Of God?

In the book of Psalms 2:7 we find “I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.” David, in this verse, is saying that God had told him he was the son of God and God has begotten him. Clearly Jesus is not the only begotten son of God.

Of course, one could say that although Jesus was not the only begotten son of God, he had no human father in contrast to David who had a human father. That is true! Since Jesus had no human father it makes the relationship between him and God a closer one. The question is what about Adam? Adam had no human father nor a human mother, and according to the Bible he too was the son of God.

The Bible says, “And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.” (Luke3:23) The Bible goes on to mention the supposed genealogy of Jesus Christ. At the end of this genealogy the Bible comes to Adam, and it says, “Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.” (Luke 3:38).

So Adam is also the son of God. According to the assumption: “because Jesus had no human father then he is closer to God than David who had a human father,” we can safely conclude that Adam is better than Jesus because he did not have a human father or mother.

The truth is Jesus and Adam do not differ in God’s sight. They were a mere creation of God. The Holy Qur’an says in clear terms,

“Verily, similitude of Jesus with God is as the similitude of Adam; He created him out of dust then said He unto him BE, and he became.” (3:59).

Who Was Jesus If Not The Literal Son Of God?
According to the Bible in Matthew 21:11 “And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.” This was Jesus. He was a prophet of God. He was sent like other prophets to deliver the message of his ONE and only ONE God (glory be to Him). Also, in Luke 24:19 the Bible says “And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people.”

Jesus was a true messenger of God Almighty. He was sent by Him to deliver His will. The Bible says in John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” These are the true characteristics of a prophet. They do as they are commanded.

They are sent to deliver a message, and the only difference between them and other humans is their utmost righteousness, “mighty in deed and word” (Luke 24:19). They are the best of all the people of their time. They are the only ones who could bear and act upon the commandments of God completely and fully. They are loved by God because of that, and their nearness to God comes from that.

The same applies to all other prophets. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, Isaac, Jacob, Jonah, Moses, Jesus, Jonas, Muhammad and all the other prophets shared the same qualities. The qualities of those who could withstand all forms of tribulations in God’s name. They all fully abided by what God has commanded them. The Qur’an says,

“Say: (O’ Our Apostle Muhammad!) (unto the People) ‘We believe in God, and what hath been sent down to us, and what hath been sent down to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Tribes, and what was given to Moses, and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord, we make no difference between any of them, and we unto Him are Muslims” (3:84).

(Note that “what was given to Moses, and Jesus” is not the same as the current Bible written by Paul, John, Luke, Matthew, and so on. Rather they were the true books of Moses and Jesus. These are not to be found today.)

@Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi
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[Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi]

Jesus was not only the firstborn son of god but in the holy Bible, there are more first-born sons of god. Here are the references.

1. Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

2. Also, God talking about David:
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

3. EPHRAIM:
Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him. JEREMIAH 31.20

I am father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. JEREMIAH 31.9

 

[RJM]

Jesus was not only the firstborn son of god but in the holy Bible, there are more first-born sons of god. Here are the references.

1. Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

2. Also, God talking about David:
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

3. EPHRAIM:
Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him. JEREMIAH 31.20

I am father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. JEREMIAH 31.9

Were they sinless and virgin born? Did they forgive sin? Muslims believe Jesus was born of a virgin? Whether you believe that or not, you are comparing completely different situations, imo

 

[muhammad_isa]

Were they sinless and virgin born? Did they forgive sin? Muslims believe Jesus was born of a virgin? Whether you believe that or not, you are comparing completely different situations?

I notice that you are more interested in insisting that "Jesus is God", than interfaith discussion like King Charles takes part in..

"The Islamic world is the custodian of one of the greatest treasuries of accumulated wisdom and spiritual knowledge available to humanity."
More detail can be found in this thread Did he die for our sins?

Do you not agree with him?

 

[RJM]

I notice that you are more interested in insisting that "Jesus is God", than interfaith discussion like King Charles takes part in..

Who's he? Oh, you mean that tree hugging guy who needs a butler to squeeze his toothpaste and cheated on his wife? Didn't his brother pay £12 million to a woman he never met? Of course I should hang on his every word?

"The Islamic world is the custodian of one of the greatest treasuries of accumulated wisdom and spiritual knowledge available to humanity."

So is the Christian world. And the Hindu world. And the Buddhist world. And the Taoist world

 

[Thomas]

Here are the references.

The thing with references is, they have to understood in context, and they have to be contemplated in light of traditional commentaries.

There are a number of ways to interpret these texts, as Hebrew, as indeed like classical Arabic, is a language full of allusion. The Prophet himself (pbuh) has said there are more than one way to interpret his own words, and even when those interpretations differ, they are not wrong.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Who's he? Oh, you mean that tree hugging guy..

Shame on you !

The environmental crisis is very serious.
Do you consider yourself religious, and fail to see the connection between the environment and modern secular society?
Hmmmph !

 

[muhammad_isa]

So is the Christian world. And the Hindu world. And the Buddhist world. And the Taoist world

That is so vague as to be meaningless, imo.

He goes on to say "And yet, so often, that wisdom is now obscured by the dominant drive towards Western materialism",
as you would know if you have read what he said.

It's easy to pay lip-service to various philosophies, claiming that they all lead to the same destination.
Jesus did not teach that .. because it aint't true.

 

[Thomas]

"The Islamic world is the custodian of one of the greatest treasuries of accumulated wisdom and spiritual knowledge available to humanity."

Shame the Islamic world isn't using that accumulated wisdom and spiritual knowledge for the benefit of humanity.

This is the Christian board, chum. People in glass houses ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

Shame the Islamic world isn't using that accumulated wisdom and spiritual knowledge for the benefit of humanity...

Exactly..
It is mimicking the west, in a drive towards western materialism .. western, secular values.

This is the Christian board, chum..

..and so is King Charles (a Christian), as far as I know.

 

[Thomas]

OK. So will you please stop doctrine-knocking?

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi]

In reply to post# 203.
My point is that we can not say according to the holy bible, that Jesus was the only begotten son of god or he is the firstborn son of god. I showed you in my previous references that there are more firstborn sons of god and more begotten sons of god, too.
All Christians and Muslims believe that Adam is without a father and mother. If you say that due to fatherless birth of Jesus, he is nearer to God. Then Adam is double nearer to God.
But, we all Muslims believe that all prophets have equal and sinless.

 

[RJM]

My point is that we can not say according to the holy bible, that Jesus was the only begotten son of god or he is the firstborn son of god.

But the people you mention cannot all have been the firstborn son of God?

All Christians and Muslims believe that Adam is without a father and mother. If you say that due to fatherless birth of Jesus, he is nearer to God. Then Adam is double nearer to God.

Christians refer to Christ as the new Adam, come to restore humanity back nearer to God. There are a lot of writings about it.

But, we all Muslims believe that all prophets have equal and sinless.

Ok. But only Adam and Jesus were born without a human father (according to Muslim belief)?

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi]

If Jesus was god, then what these verses say.
Jesus said: “About the exact date and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mark13:32)

Jesus is reported by John to have said: “I can do nothing independently.” (John 5:30)

According with Matthew and Mark the last words of Jesus on the cross were: “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?

 

[RJM]

If Jesus was god,

Jesus Christ is God AS MAN.
Christ is the bridge between God and Man.
Jesus Christ is Emmanuel -- God With Us

God is also a neutron star, and a fish, and a million whirling galaxies, and a humble blade of grass.

Christ did not come just to talk. He healed souls and forgave sin. He still does. His life and death and resurrection are His message.

 

[RJM]

If Jesus was god, then what these verses say.
Jesus said: “About the exact date and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mark13:32)

Jesus is reported by John to have said: “I can do nothing independently.” (John 5:30)

According with Matthew and Mark the last words of Jesus on the cross were: “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?

Jesus was also a man who felt fear and despair and all the human emotions

 

[RJM]

@Ijaz Ahmad Ahmadi
You need to meditate on the mysteries of the life of Christ, if you want to understand who Jesus really is. That requires an open mind and at least some knowledge of Christian scripture and thought.

He didn't come to fit your box. The Christ of the New Testament goes far beyond the box of the Quran Jesus that (many) Muslims try to squeeze Him into, imo

In the meantime do you not think it is rude to tell other people how to understand their own religion, that you know virtually nothing about?

 

[Longfellow]

… the last words of Jesus on the cross were: “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?

Those are the first words of the 22nd psalm, which ends with these words:

For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations. … A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

(later) Also, according to all four gospels, those were not His last words on the cross.

 

[muhammad_isa]

OK. So will you please stop doctrine-knocking?

Yeah, it's much too easy to do, isn't it..

Many people say that one can't be a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus is God.
I find that rather sad. Why should it matter?

 

[Cino]

Yeah, it's much too easy to do, isn't it..

Many people say that one can't be a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus is God.
I find that rather sad. Why should it matter?

Not speaking for Christians, but why should it matter to believe in the oneness of God in order to call oneself a Muslim? Isn't it also sad that atheists and polytheists are being excluded?

Just asking on principle, I know the answer, of course.