The Gospel of John

[badger]

Then again, if we don't learn the lessons of history, we are doomed to repeat them.

Show me the process of how to do it, and we could advance from there.

Oh my goodness!
Question: What do /did you do for your living? Job? That might help me.

I was a commercial detective trainer, practitioner, author and film maker for 20 years.

 

[RJM]

you don't credit my work then you

But it's not the way it happened @badger
It's an elaborate construction

There are theories that the Twin Towers was an inside job, or that politicians run a child sex ring from a pizza restaurant ... they are elaborate constructions but it's not the reality.

Jesus Christ was a spiritual figure. He wasn't a rebel leader. The gospels don't say that. He is still regarded as the greatest spiritual teacher of all time. His life and words have been the most influential in all history. It spread immediately from his closest followers. You can minimize him if you like -- but it's not the reality, imo

Why am I reminded of the Dominicans?

About the inquisition here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19892/

 

[badger]

But it's not the way it happened @badger
It's an elaborate construction

That's your opinion.

There are theories that the Twin Towers was an inside job, or that politicians run a child sex ring from a pizza restaurant ... they are elaborate constructions but it's not the reality.

Are these analogies how you promote your ideas?

Jesus Christ was a spiritual figure. He wasn't a rebel leader. The gospels don't say that. He is still regarded as the greatest spiritual teacher of all time. His life and words have been the most influential in all history. It spread immediately from his closest followers. You can minimize him if you like -- but it's not the reality, imo
About the inquisition here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19892/

That's your opinion.

 

[Thomas]

Ha ha! How the church would love that one. Why am I reminded of the Dominicans?

I'd have thought Jesuit, really.

But your low opinion of scholarship or theological methodology does you little credit.

It's clarifying the absolute fact that if you follow only your favourite scholars then you have not been looking for yourself.

If you think that, you really don't know.

I don't mind you having fun. I would ask a little respect where it is due ...

 

[badger]

I'd have thought Jesuit, really.

Why did you correct my mention of the Dominicans.? Can you tell me?

But your low opinion of scholarship or theological methodology does you little credit.

That's not very respectful imo

If you think that, you really don't know.

I don't mind you having fun. I would ask a little respect where it is due ...

I give respect to all, that's a poor card to play.
I told you straight about my background and asked you for yours. No reply.

 

[badger]

About the inquisition here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19892/

A Catholic Truth Podcast....all about the real truth of the inquisition..
Thank you for all that truth.

 

[RJM]

A Catholic Truth Podcast....all about the real truth of the inquisition..
Thank you for all that truth.

If you weren't told the real truth, you'd never know it, now would you?

told you straight about my background and asked you for yours. No reply.

A lot of folks don't like sharing their personal stuff about themselves on the internet. That's their right, imo

 

[badger]

If you weren't told the real truth, you'd never know it, now would you?

Individual Investigation before Institutional Indoctrination... That's just how I see things, I guess.

A lot of folks don't like sharing their personal stuff about themselves on the internet. That's their right, imo

Absolutely. Like you say, some don't like sharing..... sometimes I don't, either.

 

[Thomas]

Why did you correct my mention of the Dominicans.? Can you tell me?

Not a correction, just some humour, it's an in-joke, I suppose, no biggie. The Jesuits could be quite hard-line ...

That's not very respectful imo

Actually, compared to your comments, I thought it polite.

I give respect to all, that's a poor card to play.

Not to scholarship, apparently.

Individual Investigation before Institutional Indoctrination... That's just how I see things, I guess.

I'd say that's a rather narrow view, seems to assume one or t'other?

As a line of reasoning, it fails because the individual is fallible, so that's not guarantee of anything. Without any checks or balances, one can quite easily get things utterly wrong.

The assumptions that all teaching is 'institutional indoctrination', or that idea justifies dismissing all counter views, speaks for itself.

As a general rule, the peer-review process is a reliable means of sense-checking an idea. It's how the sciences work, for example, and it's applicable across a broad range of disciplines.

 

[badger]

Not to scholarship, apparently.

Depends upon the scholar and their work . Lots of impostors, you know .

As a line of reasoning, it fails because the individual is fallible, so that's not guarantee of anything. Without any checks or balances, one can quite easily get things utterly wrong.

The assumptions that all teaching is 'institutional indoctrination', or that idea justifies dismissing all counter views, speaks for itself.

Individual investigation does not dismiss but investigates.

As a general rule, the peer-review process is a reliable means of sense-checking an idea. It's how the sciences work, for example, and it's applicable across a broad range of disciplines.

Yes! ......How the sciences work.
And no....... It's no good to try and reverse subjects like theology in to the discipline of sciences.

Do you honestly believe that professors like Richard Carrier and others are scientists? Or how about Crosson's shuffling magic-for-meal peasant? Or his Roman patronage amongst peasants in Galilee? Scientist?

You seem only to support your favoured scholarship, not others.
I don't trust academic class.

 

[Ella S.]

Depends upon the scholar and their work . Lots of impostors, you know .


Individual investigation does not dismiss but investigates.


Yes! ......How the sciences work.
And no....... It's no good to try and reverse subjects like theology in to the discipline of sciences.

Do you honestly believe that professors like Richard Carrier and others are scientists? Or how about Crosson's shuffling magic-for-meal peasant? Or his Roman patronage amongst peasants in Galilee? Scientist?

You seem only to support your favoured scholarship, not others.
I don't trust academic class.

One has to approach theology as a branch of philosophy, and philosophy has very different standards of scholarship from science.

Modern philosophy is held up to the standards of analytical philosophy, which most theologians adhere to quite well and is founded in logic.

I don't think that you should blindly agree with anyone just because they are a scholar, but a deeper understanding of the scholarship and its methods will help you critique them better. Just as it is credulous to accept someone's claims without confirming them, I also think it is illogical to dismiss what someone says just because you can't understand where they are coming from.

Theology is a respected field.

ETA: Although... I would criticize "reformed epistemology" as essentially a form of asserting the consequent, and much of theology relies on "reformed epistemology" for its argumentation, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the field is meaningless. You just have to accept its axioms, similar to mathematics.

My issue there is because I am more-or-less a rationalist, thus my foundational basic beliefs do not include God.

 

[badger]

One has to approach theology as a branch of philosophy, and philosophy has very different standards of scholarship from science.

Modern philosophy is held up to the standards of analytical philosophy, which most theologians adhere to quite well and is founded in logic.

I don't think that you should blindly agree with anyone just because they are a scholar, but a deeper understanding of the scholarship and its methods will help you critique them better. Just as it is credulous to accept someone's claims without confirming them, I also think it is illogical to dismiss what someone says just because you can't understand where they are coming from.

Theology is a respected field.

ETA: Although... I would criticize "reformed epistemology" as essentially a form of asserting the consequent, and much of theology relies on "reformed epistemology" for its argumentation, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the field is meaningless. You just have to accept its axioms, similar to mathematics.

My issue there is because I am more-or-less a rationalist, thus my foundational basic beliefs do not include God.

Thank you for that, Ella, although I know a bit about one religion I don't follow religions or theology in particular, in fact if I'm pushed I would say that I don't follow theology at all, but whatever history might be evident, and that's how I read and study the gospels.

I follow and need the results of science, research and technologies every minute, but I don't trust claims because 'scholarship' made them, or 'science', etc. The media is so desperate to attract and interest the public that it will usually build headlines such as 'scientists have...' etc. Recent generations have been so spoon fed with truth-pills such as 'scholars', 'scientists', etc have said or done whatsoever, that now people expect to hear thses delivered, all the time.

I researched and wrote about truth-pills many years back so that investigators could identify these during various kinds of conversations. The very word might originate from me but I can't remember now. If a person wants another to accept or believe some claim, or anything, they can deliver information that strongly suggests truth, accuracy, honesty etc........ the most common form of delivery is to tell something that the hearer already knows is true, then to deliver the claim, whether truth or lie doesn't matter. Truth-pills can deliver lies or truths as the transmitter wishes.

Example of truth delivered with a truth pill:- The other day I mentioned to a very posh lady that I know that a dog-trainer friend of mine doesn't trust small dogs. She laughed and repeated 'A dog trainer who is frightened of dogs! Ha ha ha!' ...so I delivered an honest truth-pill about his capability as a dog trainer by mentioning that he trains search dogs for the prison service...... this turned her about instantly with a ,' Oh well, in that case....'

Example of a sell delivered with a truth-pill:- Scientists have researched insulation products and found that ours is the best at reducing dampness and condensation! Oh wow! ....but no stats on U values!

etc...... Scholarship claims? Beware!

 

[Ella S.]

Thank you for that, Ella, although I know a bit about one religion I don't follow religions or theology in particular, in fact if I'm pushed I would say that I don't follow theology at all, but whatever history might be evident, and that's how I read and study the gospels.

I follow and need the results of science, research and technologies every minute, but I don't trust claims because 'scholarship' made them, or 'science', etc. The media is so desperate to attract and interest the public that it will usually build headlines such as 'scientists have...' etc. Recent generations have been so spoon fed with truth-pills such as 'scholars', 'scientists', etc have said or done whatsoever, that now people expect to hear thses delivered, all the time.

I researched and wrote about truth-pills many years back so that investigators could identify these during various kinds of conversations. The very word might originate from me but I can't remember now. If a person wants another to accept or believe some claim, or anything, they can deliver information that strongly suggests truth, accuracy, honesty etc........ the most common form of delivery is to tell something that the hearer already knows is true, then to deliver the claim, whether truth or lie doesn't matter. Truth-pills can deliver lies or truths as the transmitter wishes.

Example of truth delivered with a truth pill:- The other day I mentioned to a very posh lady that I know that a dog-trainer friend of mine doesn't trust small dogs. She laughed and repeated 'A dog trainer who is frightened of dogs! Ha ha ha!' ...so I delivered an honest truth-pill about his capability as a dog trainer by mentioning that he trains search dogs for the prison service...... this turned her about instantly with a ,' Oh well, in that case....'

Example of a sell delivered with a truth-pill:- Scientists have researched insulation products and found that ours is the best at reducing dampness and condensation! Oh wow! ....but no stats on U values!

etc...... Scholarship claims? Beware!

Amen. "Truth-pill" is a communicative term for the issue, I think.

I continue to grow concerned that even our more rigorous academic studies published in scholarly journals will devolve into nothing more than "truth-pills" founded on other "truth-pills." Peer review is in a sorry state.

 

[badger]

Amen. "Truth-pill" is a communicative term for the issue, I think.

I continue to grow concerned that even our more rigorous academic studies published in scholarly journals will devolve into nothing more than "truth-pills" founded on other "truth-pills." Peer review is in a sorry state.

Ella, I absolutely congratulate you on this post, above.
Best post I've read here.....