Discussion in 'Pagan' started by Leveller, Jun 5, 2022.
I'm just chuckling slightly that although they seem to want to be taken seriously as registered satanists, they seem to find ridiculous the idea that others may resent them seriously in the desire to channel dark forces? Most people don't encourage evil close around them -- which is what Satan represents to most?
"According to them, the complaint claimed that the club wanted to summon Satan to the University of Adelaide and that "occultists are always involved in criminal activity".
Ashley said both contentions were untrue.
They said they were unaware of anyone in the club believing in "the literal Satan existing" and rituals were not part of the club's activities since its 30 members had such varying beliefs."
I think it's really just an attempt to thumb the nose at traditional values?
My main concern is that the club is for Pagans and Satanists among others. As someone who owes a great deal to Paganism in its Druidry form, I have as much in common with a Satanist as I do with a Jehovah's witness or a Sunni Muslim. If they have banded together because they fear discrimination then those fears would seem justified.
Although I do see why you chuckle, I am always aware of the thin end of the wedge.
Given that some Christian denominations are actively praying for the destruction of this world, to hasten the return of Jesus, and that such groups would likely not encounter the bureaucratic difficulties these would-be satanists are facing, any concern about evil intentions seems to be irrelevant in the decision making process at the university.
Still the average person equates Satanism with devil worship = evil intentions. Most folks don't go further. Words like Paganism don't provoke in the same way, imo
Agreed. I was playing devil's advocate, as it were.
A sign of things to come?
People freaking out about minutia?
That has been around forever.
I did not see anything resembling that in the article. If people preparing an open letter fit your idea of "freaking out" you must have led a rather sheltered existence.
Maybe I read something wrong, but f it makes the news....and then is reported as in an intl forum...shared as significant...
That seems like chicken little to me.
I too doubt the long-term significance of this event. Hence my sharing RJM's chuckle. Nonetheless,
is always something that I am alert to and take very seriously.
With respect to you too wil.
They are occultists, not Satanists. Most occultists are Christian or Thelemite, with a variety of forms of Neopaganism behind them.
Satanic occultists are quite rare, both in occult circles and in Satanist circles, since most Satanists are LaVeyan or Satanic Temple Satanists and view Satanism as a philosophy based on the archetype of Satan, not a religion that worships the devil.
Added to that, "summoning Satan" is not something the vast majority of occultists do. Goetia itself, which is concerned with summoning spirits, is a very niche subject within occultism. Most occultists are more concerned with Hermetic Qabalah, alchemy, the Higher Guardian Angel, ritual purity, etc.
They're not trying to channel dark forces.
Even many occult Satanists don't desire to summon Satan and might not even view Satan as a dark force. Sure, some people see Satan as a symbol of evil, but a good chunk of non-Christians see the Holy Trinity as a symbol of evil, too. Actually, most of the people I know in real life who aren't Christian see the Christian Cross as essentially a hate symbol.
Many Satanists venerate Satan as a pagan deity, even as far as identifying him with figures like Set, Enki, Pan, or Loki. Plenty of Satanists have a private shrine where icons of Satan sit beside icons of other pagan deities.
"Polytheistic Satanism," as popularized by Diane Vera, is essentially just eclectic Neopaganism that treats demons as pagan gods. Generational Demonolatry does something quite similar, and they believe themselves to be a pagan survival religion. They see demonology as essentially keeping the spirit of demonized pagan deities alive through occult rituals. So a deity like Astarte took on the guise of Astaroth during Christian occupation so she could continue interacting with her followers.
Under that line of reasoning, they see themselves as following an ultimately pagan tradition that's adapted under Christian occupation with a direct root in actual pagan practices.
I'm not saying that I agree with them, I just don't think pagans should be so quick to dismiss Satanists.
Thank you @Ella S. That is helpful. It is a subject I know very little about. I did try to do a little research some years ago but the websites I looked at were rather over the top on the gothic imagery and heavy rock. In the seventies, I read LaVey's 'Satanic Bible' but was not impressed.
Here's a good introductory site that was quite big a couple of decades ago and remains fairly influential:
Of course, it does not cover all of the varieties of Satanism out there, but as the site itself explains, Satanism is highly eclectic and individual even beyond what you usually see in a religion. It might even be as diverse as Hinduism.
There are many different groups involved with Satanism, and I've never bothered to read much about these, but some of the folks who follow some Left Hand Paths (and others) 'speak' with such clear direct honesty about themselves and their beliefs that I don't mind reading them. Other groups seem to be total nutcases. But then I know of some Christian groups that are totally daft or even dangerous, so Satanism, LHP, Witchcrafts and all have their interesting and crazy sections just the same, I guess.
What does sadden me is how these can get connected to what (little) we know about the ancient Druids. Druidry has had a bad press for millennia and I wouldn't know how much is true about the ancient descriptions, only enemies seemed to write about them because (I've read that) much of the Druid way was secret.
I recall reading somewhere that Hebraic angelology emerged as beliefs moved away from poly- to monotheism. In early writings the God of Israel is much like their neighbours' Gods, only bigger, better, meaner, etc. As the idea of monotheism naturally evolved into 'there is only one God, and He's ours', the neighbours' deities were demoted to the lesser orders and, of course, 'demonised'.
I haven't researched it, though ...
Totally agree. I am a big fan of much in Modern Druidry, and I stress the word modern. It may or may not have anything to do with the ancient form and to be honest I am not really bothered.
Separate names with a comma.