My disagreements with other people about the teachings of Jesus

Longfellow

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These are some examples of my disagreements with other people about the teachings of Jesus. Currently I'm thinking that:
- the gospel of Jesus is about His kingdom, not about any salvation doctrine of Christianity.
- the kingdom of Jesus is here and now, whenever and wherever people are serving and obeying Him above all others because they want to, and learning together to live the way He says to live.
- the Creator Himself has never entered into His creation, to be a part of it.
- the way that Jesus was conceived is not what makes Him the Son of God.
- the Holy Spirit is like a person in some ways, and not like a person in some other ways.
- there aren't any belief requirements for salvation, and there aren't any beliefs that can save a person.
- the baptism of Jesus is not with physical water.
- people do not always need to believe that anything in the gospels ever actually happened, or that they are about a real person, or that God exists, to enter the kingdom of Jesus and/or to be saved.
- the reason for the miracle stories in the gospels is not for people to believe that they really happened physically, but to teach some lessons, like the kingdom parables.
- it's an open question for me whether Jesus was resurrected physically or not.
 
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Cino

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people do not always need to believe that anything in the gospels ever actually happened, or that they are about a real person, or that God exists, to enter the kingdom of Jesus and/or to be saved.

What would I need to be saved from, as a non-believer?
 
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Cino

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I don't know. I've never found an answer to that question. It might not have any meaning outside of a Jewish context.
A Christian one, I would think?

I'm still a bit unclear as to the scope of your musings in this thread - if salvation is not meaningful to you, and yet you mention it - what to make of it?
 

Longfellow

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A Christian one, I would think?

I'm still a bit unclear as to the scope of your musings in this thread - if salvation is not meaningful to you, and yet you mention it - what to make of it?
I mention it because in the gospel stories people ask Jesus about it sometimes, and He answers as if it means something to Him. Just now I searched in the Bible for “saved.” In the Old Testament, most often it’s being saved from death. Sometimes it’s being saved from captivity, oppression or some other kind of tribulation. A few times in both Testaments, it’s about sins being forgiven. I’m thinking that maybe sometimes in the New Testament it’s also about being saved from some kind of metaphorical death or slavery.
 

Thomas

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These are some examples of my disagreements with other people about the teachings of Jesus. Currently I'm thinking that:
- the gospel of Jesus is about His kingdom, not about any salvation doctrine of Christianity.
Then on what authority is he declaring himself king?

I am also a bit confused ... Jesus spoke in parables. You think the whole Gospel is a parable ... then I must ask, a parable about what?
 

Cino

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I mention it because in the gospel stories people ask Jesus about it sometimes, and He answers as if it means something to Him. Just now I searched in the Bible for “saved.” In the Old Testament, most often it’s being saved from death. Sometimes it’s being saved from captivity, oppression or some other kind of tribulation. A few times in both Testaments, it’s about sins being forgiven. I’m thinking that maybe sometimes in the New Testament it’s also about being saved from some kind of metaphorical death or slavery.

I am not a scholar, but I think that "saviour" - "Soter / Σωτήρ" in Greek - was in antiquity a title for certain pagan deities, also for deified rulers like Alexander, his successors, and later the Roman emperors. In Judaism, the concept as you write, is more tied in with ending opression, ending exile, the figure of the Messiah (which is much more political and "down to earth" than in Christianity) and to some degree with dealing with death and the world to come.

My personal impression is that the Jewish concept was extended with the gentile one, in Christianity, where Jesus' claim to being the Messiah was interpreted in a spiritual way, in particular regarding the divine nature of Jesus and everlasting life, which was a good fit with the gentile concept of Soter.

Again, not a scholar, and not claiming to understand either religion better than the actual believers.
 

Longfellow

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Then on what authority is he declaring himself king?

He doesn't say. He can't be appealing to any higher authority than His own, because there isn't any higher authority than His.

I am also a bit confused ... Jesus spoke in parables. You think the whole Gospel is a parable ... then I must ask, a parable about what?

I'm not thinking of the whole gospel as a parable. I'm thinking of the Bible gospels as collections of sayings and parables.
 

Longfellow

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My personal impression is that the Jewish concept was extended with the gentile one, in Christianity, where Jesus' claim to being the Messiah was interpreted in a spiritual way, in particular regarding the divine nature of Jesus and everlasting life, which was a good fit with the gentile concept of Soter.

The way it looks to me now is that He is a promised king of Israel, and people can enter His kingdom now, spiritually, but the time has not come yet for it to happen physically. I'm only talking here about the teachings of Jesus in the Bible gospels. The teachings of Paul might be a different story. Literally.
 

Longfellow

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[/QUOTE]
Then on what authority is he declaring himself king?

He doesn't say. He can't be appealing to any higher authority than His own, because there isn't any higher authority than His.

But He does. He says all the time where His authority comes from ...

Where does He say it comes from?

The Father [God]

I agree that His authority comes from the Father, but I didn't think that He said that explicitly anywhere in the gospels. I was wrong. Just now I searched and found this:

John 5:26-27

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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These are some examples of my disagreements with other people about the teachings of Jesus. Currently I'm thinking that:
- the gospel of Jesus is about His kingdom, not about any salvation doctrine of Christianity.
- the kingdom of Jesus is here and now, whenever and wherever people are serving and obeying Him above all others because they want to, and learning together to live the way He says to live.
- the Creator Himself has never entered into His creation, to be a part of it.
- the way that Jesus was conceived is not what makes Him the Son of God.
- the Holy Spirit is like a person in some ways, and not like a person in some other ways.
- there aren't any belief requirements for salvation, and there aren't any beliefs that can save a person.
- the baptism of Jesus is not with physical water.
- people do not always need to believe that anything in the gospels ever actually happened, or that they are about a real person, or that God exists, to enter the kingdom of Jesus and/or to be saved.
- the reason for the miracle stories in the gospels is not for people to believe that they really happened physically, but to teach some lessons, like the kingdom parables.
- it's an open question for me whether Jesus was resurrected physically or not.

All interesting points, the last point is the most questionable. My take on it, is that, that specific topic, is the most spiritual aspect of the entire Biblical accounts.

Why? As it really resolves all the other issues.

Regards Tony
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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What would I need to be saved from, as a non-believer?
Personally I see all the Holy Books have that answer. I think that a non-beleiver would also realise what that answer is by life experiences.

We need to be saved from our own bad choices, our own self based motivations that are not supporting our family, friends and community. Which in turn reverberates around the world.

Regards Tony
 

powessy

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What would I need to be saved from, as a non-believer?
Interesting thoughts, what would one need to be saved from? The interesting things about the words jesus speaks is first you have to know or believe in who he is to be saved by him, why do you think this? How could Jesus save us from sin?

You have to know something about something to figure something out. A mind will
Not give me time or minds if they do not know who I am. This trading of time is how minds figure each other out kind of like swapping spit. In order for Jesus or his mind to figure you out you need to ask questions about him to find time inside his mind. Not believing in him is not important to minds it is only you asking questions about him for you find time in his mind.

A mind can become something they call time “left over” this means you are completely full and must figure yourself out first before finding more time luckily I do not have this problem.

Why does he believe we need to be saved by him. He is assuming that his mind is more time then any others, that he can become himself many more times then anything else and figure himself out. Even as a himself only as his words imply he would still needs years to figure himself out again after his lifetime here. To find time in his mind would assure you could become something again and that no other mind can become you this is why he is himself only created through the nature of worlds.

As I become more understanding of the nature of minds to learn their ways more of what Jesus did seems ignorant to me.

Powessy
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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Eventually..
When Jesus, peace be with him, returns, he will marry and become a father. :)

Exactly as per Isaiah 54:5 "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called"

I can offer that this is recorded in the Baha'i writings of refering to the wife of Baha’u’llah Asiyih Khanum and Baha’u'llah.


The amount of proof for Baha'u'llah is overwhelming indeed 😁😃🙏💝

Regards Tony
 
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