What happens when God enters a life

[Thinking required]

Of course you can

That’s news to me. All I have to do is look at responses on this site. Either someone misunderstands what is said or wants to twist what is said. The “Trinity” for example which has been brought up here and not by me. For most, it’s Christians making “partners” to God. This is so far from the truth. Christians simply read the Bible and have to come to terms with what is said in the Scriptures. When it says that Jesus forgives sins, what am I to think? When it says that Jesus is the Word and then says that the Word created all things, what am I to think. Somehow God is revealing Himself to mankind in a very personal way. Since God cannot be contained in anything, why would someone believe that He has to do what a human requires. Idols were a very real problem in the OT. But Idols were “other” gods, not “partners” with God.

Israel wanted a different leader, someone they could control and deal with. Christianity has never made idols, unless you want to talk about Mary in Catholicism. Stating Mary was the mother of God. Which is not true. God never had a mother. I can hear all the expressions now! But Jesus was human! Yes, but He also does only things which God can do. Enough of this, I got on a little diatribe. The point is, the text of the Bible is clear, yet so many don’t believe what it says and misinterprets what is said.

 

[Thomas]

Tackling the overview first:

I wrote this reply, then ended up asking the question which is at the bottom of it all – so I ask that first:

Do you believe Jesus is God?

If no, then let it lie there. We'll never agree. If you believe he is God and man, then there are grounds for dialogue.

The “Trinity” ... it’s Christians making “partners” to God.

That's not what the doctrine says. If that's what you think you've misunderstood it. It's no use ranting at me, you simply got it wrong. There is only one God. Three persons. Not 'partners' – that would be three Gods.

Christians simply read the Bible and have to come to terms with what is said in the Scriptures.

That's where the doctrine of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit comes from.

When it says that Jesus forgives sins, what am I to think?

Same as me, I would have thought – only God can do that. It's a declaration of Divinity. That's why His audience reacted so violently when he made such statements.

When it says that Jesus is the Word and then says that the Word created all things, what am I to think.

Same as me. The Word is God.

(And concerning the Paraclete – John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7)

Since God cannot be contained in anything, why would someone believe that He has to do what a human requires.

Who says that?

But Jesus was human!

And God.

Yes, but He also does only things which God can do.

Well there you go then.

Christianity has never made idols, unless you want to talk about Mary in Catholicism. Stating Mary was the mother of God. Which is not true. God never had a mother.

Mary is the "Mother of the Lord" (Luke 1:43) and John says "the Word was made flesh" (John 1:14)

Do Catholics believe Mary is mother of God the Father? No. God the Son? Yes. She is the mother of the human person of Christ.

You're misunderstanding and misrepresenting Catholic doctrine.

So it may well be you "can hear all the expressions now!" – the question is, do you understand what is being said, and to me it seems not.

 

[Cino]

That’s news to me. All I have to do is look at responses on this site. Either someone misunderstands what is said or wants to twist what is said.

That's why I said, "of course *you* can". It's on you to tune your communication style, not on others to guess what you really mean.

 

[Thinking required]

Do Catholics believe Mary is mother of God the Father? No. God the Son? Yes. She is the mother of the human person of Christ.

Mary's motherhood of God (Deipara in Latin) is a dogma of the Catholic Church.[58] The term "Mother of God" appears within the oldest known prayer to Mary, the Sub tuum praesidium, which dates to around 250 AD: "Under thy protection we seek refuge, Holy Mother of God". This was the first specifically Marian doctrine to be formally defined by the church, formally affirmed at the Third Ecumenical Council held at Ephesus in 431. This refuted the objection raised by Patriarch Nestorius of Constantinople.[59]

Well here it goes, you have totally misunderstood my sarcasm. I am a true believer of Jesus; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I am not saying this is taught in the Catholic church today. You and I agree on the basic of the Trinity, but not much else when it comes to Catholic doctrine. I believe in Faith alone, no works! Nothing I have to do other than believe.

You're misunderstanding and misrepresenting Catholic doctrine.

Do you think I have not researched Catholic doctrine and read as much history as possible about the Catholic Church. It's much like the Protestant religion, many different beliefs. The doctrines of a man-made system change, the doctrine of Scripture does not.

 

[Thinking required]

not on others to guess what you really mean.

Are you saying that I am not direct enough!

 

[Cino]

Are you saying that I am not direct enough!

No, I'm saying you're coming across as a bit of a dick. You can work on that.

 

[RJM]

Tackling the overview first:

I wrote this reply, then ended up asking the question which is at the bottom of it all – so I ask that first:

Do you believe Jesus is God?

If no, then let it lie there. We'll never agree. If you believe he is God and man, then there are grounds for dialogue.


That's not what the doctrine says. If that's what you think you've misunderstood it. It's no use ranting at me, you simply got it wrong. There is only one God. Three persons. Not 'partners' – that would be three Gods.


That's where the doctrine of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit comes from.


Same as me, I would have thought – only God can do that. It's a declaration of Divinity. That's why His audience reacted so violently when he made such statements.


Same as me. The Word is God.

(And concerning the Paraclete – John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7)


Who says that?


And God.


Well there you go then.



Mary is the "Mother of the Lord" (Luke 1:43) and John says "the Word was made flesh" (John 1:14)

Do Catholics believe Mary is mother of God the Father? No. God the Son? Yes. She is the mother of the human person of Christ.

You're misunderstanding and misrepresenting Catholic doctrine.

So it may well be you "can hear all the expressions now!" – the question is, do you understand what is being said, and to me it seems not.

Well here it goes, you have totally misunderstood my sarcasm.

I did understand it, but it shows how things can be misunderstood?

I'm starting to get you as a non-denominational Trinitarian literalist? Would that fit?

 

[Thinking required]

No, I'm saying you're coming across as a bit of a dick. You can work on that.

Not unless I get a sex change!

 

[Thinking required]

'm starting to get you as a non-denominational Trinitarian literalist? Would that fit?

Denominational is a man made thing. If the denomination adheres to Bible teaching, then I would attend the facility. Right now I attend a non denominational church. I started in a Southern Baptist church, left there after understanding their views on election, went to a Reformed Baptist church for about 8 years before moving to a different state, attended a E-Free church for 17 years and then went to Mennonite Brethren church for 5 years and am now in the church that I am in.

Yes, you could say that I am a Trinitarian "literalist", that is if we are both using the same definition. The Scriptures declare that there is God, there is a person called the Father, there is a person called the Son and there is a person called the Holy Spirit. All 3 of these persons display God's attributes. And seem to interchange in their roles. I.E. God presenting Himself in 3 persons.
Does that fit?

 

[Thomas]

Mary's motherhood of God is a dogma of the Catholic Church.

Yes.

This was the first specifically Marian doctrine to be formally defined by the church, formally affirmed at the Third Ecumenical Council held at Ephesus in 431.

The Council of Ephesus (431) attributed to Mary the title, Theotokos (lit: 'God-bearer'), commonly understood as Mother of God.

This needs to be read against the Council's declaration against Nestorius, and the root of the dispute was Christological, being a definition of how the two natures, one divine and one human, co-existed in Christ. In the end it's a dispute about terms: 'hypostasis', 'prosopon', 'ousia' and so on ... it's theologians wrangling on the head of a pin.

For the simple Christian, it's easy: Scripture tells us Jesus was born of Mary, and that Jesus is God, ergo Mary is the Mother of God – not the mother of a person who was subsumed or by some other means 'taken over' by the Divine.

To prevent exactly the type of error you've fallen into, the point was clarified at Chalcedon (451):
"...begotten from the Father before the ages as regards his godhead, and in the last days, the same, because of us and because of our salvation begotten from the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos, as regards his manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only-begotten..."

When Christians say Mother of God, we do not assume the mother of the Father, nor the Holy Spirit, nor or the divinity of the Son.

And, of course, it's not just Catholics, it's the Orthodox Patriarchies, the Lutheran Church, the Anglican Church, etc.

Well here it goes, you have totally misunderstood my sarcasm.

I don't particularly care about that, it's your misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine I'm responding to.

I am not saying this is taught in the Catholic church today.

I am saying you have a poor grasp of what is.

 

[Thinking required]

And, of course, it's not just Catholics, it's the Orthodox Patriarchies, the Lutheran Church, the Anglican Church, etc.

They all have a Catholic leaning. Infant baptism! You can loose your Salvation! The Priests are important!

 

[Thinking required]

I don't particularly care about that, it's your misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine I'm responding to.

Haven't you every read Luther or Calvin?

 

[Thinking required]

I don't particularly care about that, it's your misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine I'm responding to.

Which sect do you ascribe too? Your view is just that, there are quite a few different beliefs within the Catholic Church and it's off shoots. Do you believe that a Priest should be able to molest children and still be a Priest? Do you believe women should be Priests? Do you believe Priests can be married? Your doctrines have changed over time. You don't burn Protestants at the stake anymore.

 

[Thomas]

Haven't you every read Luther or Calvin?

Yep

 

[Thomas]

Which sect do you ascribe too? Your view is just that, there are quite a few different beliefs within the Catholic Church and it's off shoots...

Simply saying what your words tell me.

You think you're right, yet you are ill-informed on the very things you offer as argument.

I'm not knocking your belief ... just don't knock what you don't understand, it makes you look ignorant.

 

[Thinking required]

I'm not knocking your belief ... just don't knock what you don't understand, it makes you look ignorant.

I am always willing to listen and research. Fire away about my errors and help me understand. There are so many different beliefs in all the religious organizations. The Bible should always be what everything is measured by. Forget the "interpretations", just read the text and let it speak. Everyone needs to park their bias's.

 

[Faithfulservant]

@RJM I want to say a few things. First off I consider myself a non denominational trinitarian literalist have to laugh at this! Sorry but we are always trying to label everyone. I do not adhere to denominations because they have a tendency to add man made doctrine that take away from the simplicity of salvation listed in scripture. I relate to @Thinking required because of this even though his method of posting is not the same as mine.

@Thomas gets much love from me because Secondly every Catholic (not cultural) but practicing Catholic I've met believes that Jesus Christ is God that He is a 1/3 of the triune God. They believe He came as a sacrifice and died on the cross for the sins of the world. That He resurrected and is now in heaven and we are waiting for His return. They believe everything required for believing on Him which is the only means of Salvation. @Thinking required nothing else matters.. all the other things that they believe that you don't believe does not matter. Paul spoke of using scripture against other believers. Catholics are believers. They are the body of Christ whether you believe they are in error or not. This is divisive and I urge you to pray on this and study scripture. This is playing God and there's pride at the root of evangelicals demonizing Catholics and it makes me feel sick at the pit of my gut.

For close to two decades I've read Thomas staunchly defend the faith more aptly than I ever could because he's a scholar. He is defending your faith to all those that say Jesus is not God or that there's no trinity and even as much as defending Sunday worship which I very much appreciate.. because who wants to be told they are in error for not practicing the Sabbath.

They are our brothers and sisters in Christ

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I am always willing to listen and research. Fire away about my errors and help me understand. There are so many different beliefs in all the religious organizations. The Bible should always be what everything is measured by. Forget the "interpretations", just read the text and let it speak. Everyone needs to park their bias's.

There is only One God, so that makes it a challenge for all of us. How many are willing to discuss this outside their current frame of references?

I would offer, not many, as just by saying there is One God, has already created billions of opposing views.

Regards Tony

 

[Thinking required]

You think you're right, yet you are ill-informed on the very things you offer as argument.

I'm not knocking your belief ... just don't knock what you don't understand, it makes you look ignorant.

Well all you have to do is to post what I am wrong about.

 

[Thinking required]

There is only One God, so that makes it a challenge for all of us.

Yes, there is only One God. Here is the problem, since just about no one here knows this One God, including you, you presume to believe in the One God by rejecting what He has spoken. So, if you don't accept what He says, then you create your own little god that you can be comfortable with.