Can you relate?

Is he on You Tube? I'll have a look. Can you link a particular talk?

Also not really talking about translation problems, but deliberate quoting out-of-context and disregarding passages that don't suit the drift?
Absolutely. He is all over YouTube, as a guest on others' channels and on his own channel Tenak Talk.
This weekend, I will go through and find some vids of him, and create a thread about it.
He's pretty harsh, or at least zealous, in his critiques of Christianity. Not everyone will want to watch his talks or him being interviewed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM
Have you actually read the Torah? By Jesus saying this He was claiming He was God.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

They were ready to stone Him because of what He was claiming was heretical.
Firstly, I have no cemented Ideas on these topics, as I see truth is relative, we do not have the ability to state absolute truth.

I would offer that Jesus was not claiming to be God. (But can be seen that way) I see the "I Am" is not God, as nothing can describe the Essence of God, that knowledge is not available to us, Jesus or any of the Messengers. (On the other hand I can say that for us the Messengers are all we can know of God, so it is not wrong to see them in that light, as long as we do not argue about it)

I see that the "I Am" is actually the Holy Spirit, the First the last, the beginning and the end, tha Alpha and Omega (Created by God). My current understanding is that God sends the Messengers (Annointed with the Holy Spirit), and any reference to God made by a Messenger, is but a reference to the Attributes reflected from the Holy Spirit, not reference to the unknowable God. It is actually a reference to their own Essence, given of God.

I think this is more in tune with the Torah, as G_d's Name was always to Holy to speak of.

The quandary we face is that the Quran and the Baha'i Writings have vast information on this topic, that many may not yet considered, so we are looking at the topic with different frames of references.
 
You can go on scouring the Bible trying to prove that Baha'u'llah is not just on the same level but even greater than Jesus Christ
That has never been, or will never be an intent. The Messengers are but one Holy Spirit, their Names are One.

To.praise One, is to praise them all, to be disrespectful to one is to be disrespectful to all.

May God protect us all from this.

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:
I know that Evangelical Christians often say that they were great sinners but then had THE event that made them reborn. That's fine as long as it is true. But what about people (like me) who were not great sinners and had a sudden event that changed their lives, who learnt with growing maturity? If I wanted to join a community like yours, I could state that I had an inspiring event at the age of 19 or 28, to conform that expectation to be "reborn", but this would be a lie.
What I wanted to put into your attention is rather that many Christians (I won't talk about other religions to you), be it e.g. a Catholic who decides to become a monk or a Protestant who decides to study theology, have a strong reason to dedicate their lives to God and to Jesus, whether it be a sudden conversion or a desire that has riped for a long time.
The following is my belief and my faith.

We are ALL great sinners. That's the problem is not recognizing your sin and that it's offensive in the eyes of a Holy and Righteous God. That God provides an answer to this great sin and the cause being a separation from God The Father. That the Son of God shedding His blood for the atonement of the sins of ALL the great sinners in this world. Only the blood of God could satisfy this price that blood be the atonement for sin. That His sacrifice be the only sacrifice needed ever again.

We are all in rebellion to God since Eden. Not recognizing that is the greatest misfortune.
 
Jesus is not confirming what Moses said. He is actually trying to get the Jews to see what is really written in the Scriptures. Jesus said that Moses wrote about His (Jesus') coming.
Just as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah have done.

So they are actually confirming what the previous Messengers have written, not what the believers think was written.

I have just read a prayer this morning, the Tablet of Ahmad, I will link it below (under spoiler) I will also post some extracts. It leaves no doubt as to what Baha'u'llah is saying.

".....Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great..."

So Jesus wrote of Baha'u'llah (Bab and Muhammad as well) and if you had believed Jesus, then you would believe Baha'u'llah, as Jesus wrote of Him. (Highlighing a point only) There is no Compulsion in Religion.

Tablet of Ahmad
“These daily obligatory prayers, together with a few other specific ones, such as the Healing Prayer, the Tablet of Ahmad, have been invested by Bahá’u’lláh with a special potency and significance, and should therefore be accepted as such and be recited by the believers with unquestioning faith and confidence, that through them they may enter into a much closer communion with God, and identify themselves more fully with His laws and precepts.“ —From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi

''He is the King, the All-Knowing, the Wise! Lo, the Nightingale of Paradise singeth upon the twigs of the Tree of Eternity, with holy and sweet melodies, proclaiming to the sincere ones the glad tidings of the nearness of God, calling the believers in the Divine Unity to the court of the Presence of the Generous One, informing the severed ones of the message which hath been revealed by God, the King, the Glorious, the Peerless, guiding the lovers to the seat of sanctity and to this resplendent Beauty.

Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great.

O Ahmad! Bear thou witness that verily He is God and there is no God but Him, the King, the Protector, the Incomparable, the Omnipotent. And that the One Whom He hath sent forth by the name of ‘Alí¹ was the true One from God, to Whose commands we are all conforming.

Say: O people be obedient to the ordinances of God, which have been enjoined in the Bayán by the Glorious, the Wise One. Verily He is the King of the Messengers and His book is the Mother Book did ye but know.

Thus doth the Nightingale utter His call unto you from this prison. He hath but to deliver this clear message. Whosoever desireth, let him turn aside from this counsel and whosoever desireth let him choose the path to his Lord.

O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones.

Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another.

O Ahmad! Forget not My bounties while I am absent. Remember My days during thy days, and My distress and banishment in this remote prison. And be thou so steadfast in My love that thy heart shall not waver, even if the swords of the enemies rain blows upon thee and all the heavens and the earth arise against thee.

Be thou as a flame of fire to My enemies and a river of life eternal to My loved ones, and be not of those who doubt.

And if thou art overtaken by affliction in My path, or degradation for My sake, be not thou troubled thereby.

Rely upon God, thy God and the Lord of thy fathers. For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness.

Thus have their superstitions become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God, the Exalted, the Great.

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.

Learn well this Tablet, O Ahmad. Chant it during thy days and withhold not thyself therefrom. For verily, God hath ordained for the one who chants it, the reward of a hundred martyrs and a service in both worlds. These favors have We bestowed upon thee as a bounty on Our part and a mercy from Our presence, that thou mayest be of those who are grateful.

By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions.

Verily, He is the Merciful, the Compassionate. Praise be to God, the Lord of all the worlds".

Bahá’u’lláh

The prayer contains a challenge and a warning

The Challenge

".... O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones.

Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another...."

The warning

"...Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity...."

All the best, much Love, Regards Tony
 
Firstly, I have no cemented Ideas on these topics, as I see truth is relative, we do not have the ability to state absolute truth.

I would offer that Jesus was not claiming to be God. (But can be seen that way) I see the "I Am" is not God, as nothing can describe the Essence of God, that knowledge is not available to us, Jesus or any of the Messengers. (On the other hand I can say that for us the Messengers are all we can know of God, so it is not wrong to see them in that light, as long as we do not argue about it)

I see that the "I Am" is actually the Holy Spirit, the First the last, the beginning and the end, tha Alpha and Omega (Created by God). My current understanding is that God sends the Messengers (Annointed with the Holy Spirit), and any reference to God made by a Messenger, is but a reference to the Attributes reflected from the Holy Spirit, not reference to the unknowable God. It is actually a reference to their own Essence, given of God.

I think this is more in tune with the Torah, as G_d's Name was always to Holy to speak of.

The quandary we face is that the Quran and the Baha'i Writings have vast information on this topic, that many may not yet considered, so we are looking at the topic with different frames of references.
The following is my belief and my faith

Jeremiah 23:21
“I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.

2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.


The Holy Bible is our truth and the Holy Spirit convicts us of it. When you talk of your book being truth and cannot even reason that it's apostasy to our truth and that we should listen to your truth knowing that ...well that's pretty arrogant of you because you don't even know what our book says. Bless your heart!

My bible says that Jesus is God and believing otherwise means eternity separated from God when I accepted the truth of the God in the first place because of that very fact. Why the heck would I take anything your book says as anything other than lies? Sorry my friend you are barking up the wrong tree.

It's folly to have these discussions with you because you cannot change my mind and I can't change yours. You aren't interested in learning about my faith because you think you know it already and to be honest I'm not terribly interested in learning about yours because your method of proselytizing your faith is a turn off and there is no interest in sharing ideas and beliefs.

Have a good day
 
You aren't interested in learning about my faith because you think you know it already and to be honest I'm not terribly interested in learning about yours because your method of proselytizing your faith is a turn off and there is no interest in sharing ideas and beliefs.
We both stand accused. Yet we talk of the same source, our One God.

So where is the barrier, I love Jesus with all my heart and all my soul. Is it my barrier?

I know I am a black and white person, have been all my life and yes, a lot of people find that a difficult personality.

Regards Tony
 
We both stand accused. Yet we talk of the same source, our One God.

So where is the barrier, I love Jesus with all my heart and all my soul. Is it my barrier?

I know I am a black and white person, have been all my life and yes, a lot of people find that a difficult personality.

Regards Tony
Maybe that's why you rub me the wrong way because I'm also a very black and white person. You are a mirror to me. My faith is all or nothing and yours to you is probably all or nothing.

God bless!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM
Maybe that's why you rub me the wrong way because I'm also a very black and white person. You are a mirror to me. My faith is all or nothing and yours to you is probably all or nothing.

God bless!!
Faith is supposed to be a life endeavour, a commitment to give self to the whole, so that is a good thing.

I guess I am fortunate, that my black and white look at life said if there was One God, how is it there is many Faiths? As a young child I witnessed the devotion of Buddhists and Hindu, while going to Sunday school as a Christian, so I could never say that God had not guided them as well.

It was logical to me when I heard a Message that said all the Messengers are from the One God, that are all One in Christ.

Imagine a Christian that can embrace a Buddhist, a Hindu and a Muslim, knowing that they too are inspired by Jesus the Christ, even if they are yet to find that connection.

That is what is is to be a Baha'i, a Lover of Christ, no matter from where Christ shines from.

Imagine a world where Christians did not need to surpress other and obliterate other races, but where all they had to find was the light of Christ in their cultures, embrace that light and share what else they had found.

The Australian Aboriginal dream time is a wonderful foundation in faith and connection with land and ancestors, as was many of the Native American beliefs, etc. Imagine if Christians had worked with the natives, what a different world we would have. Materialism may never have got a foothold.

Lots of Love in Christ, Regards Tony
 
Just as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah have done.
That's just not true and you know it.
So they are actually confirming what the previous Messengers have written, not what the believers think was written.
Actually nothing need to be confirmed, Jesus says it all.
So Jesus wrote of Baha'u'llah (Bab and Muhammad as well)
In your dreams and only in your dreams. Jesus is the Last Prophet every needed. The snake oil salesmen just want to deceive people. That is truly Satan's best job, deceiving people.
We both stand accused. Yet we talk of the same source, our One God.
Sorry, your god is certainly not her God. You god is Baha.
So where is the barrier, I love Jesus with all my heart and all my soul. Is it my barrier?
You don't have the slightest idea of who Jesus even is and you say that you love Him! You love your made up Jesus and god.
Faith is supposed to be a life endeavour, a commitment to give self to the whole, so that is a good thing.
You speak a lot about faith. Everyone has "faith". But Saving Faith is what is necessary and that you do not understand becasue you believe that you can save yourself.
as a Christian
Throw up the red flag, you were never a Christian. You probably believed that your were, but you were not. A true Christian first of all believes that Jesus is Savior and the only Savior and is God in human form. You have never believed any of that. Therefore you could never have been a Christian no matter how much you thought your were.
magine a Christian that can embrace a Buddhist, a Hindu and a Muslim, knowing that they too are inspired by Jesus the Christ, even if they are yet to find that connection.
This is your real problem, you were "inspired". A person who knows Jesus will never say that, the only thing they will say is that I am a rotten sinner in need of a Savior.
Imagine a world where Christians did not need to surpress other and obliterate other races, but where all they had to find was the light of Christ in their cultures, embrace that light and share what else they had found.
Hell will be full of those people!

(Several short successive posts have been moved here by moderator to make one post)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Last edited:
That is what is is to be a Baha'i, a Lover of Christ, no matter from where Christ shines from.
No Tony. To be a Baha'i is to acknowledge Baha'u'llah as Christ, and to unquestioningly believe and act on everything he says -- replacing (superseding) Jesus for the next 1000 years, imo. This your right, but the Bible cannot be manipulated to agree with you
Imagine a Christian that can embrace a Buddhist, a Hindu and a Muslim, knowing that they too are inspired by Jesus the Christ, even if they are yet to find that connection.
Many Christians do
Imagine a world where Christians did not need to surpress other and obliterate other races
There have always been people who abuse Christianity for war and power, as with most other religions
 
Last edited:
Your truth about Jesus is different from my truth about Jesus (or any other Abrahamic prophet/messenger/manifestation/Mahdi).
I think that we finally agree on something. You will find the Jesus that I speak about in the texts of the Bible. Black and white words written on pages by the Word of God. It's all there. But I am quite sure that you love your Jesus better than the Jesus of the Bible.
 
No Tony. To be a Baha'i is to acknowledge Baha'u'llah as Christ, and to unquestioningly believe and act on everything he says -- replacing (superseding) Jesus for the next 1000 years, imo. This your right, but the Bible cannot be manipulated to agree with you
It is bigger than me and you RJM. I respond to these replies, not in the attempt to change your Faith RJM, but for others that may read these posts, others who are still looking for answers.

One can say the Torah was manipulated by the Christian to agree with them, but this is not the case, the Torah told of Jesus. This is exactly the same for Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, whereas they also have the New Testament of Jesus that also confirms their Revelations.

A manipulation is not needed, but new eyes, new ears are needed, as we need to look at and consider new 'Frames of References' given by God. There is a reason it is offered in the holy books that all things are made new.

"Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

"Isaiah 42:9 - Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them."

"Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert".

This theme is throughout all the Holy texts. The world is cyclic, so is God's Revelations to man.

Regards Tony
 
Many Christians do

There have always been people who abuse Christianity for war and power, as with most other religions
Well done to all those Christians and yes many people abuse the Faith they have embraced, that is why God sends the Messengers, to guide us back to the right path.

Regards Tony
 
Back
Top