Was Muhammad Really Talking to Jibril? LHP

'Amir Alzzalam

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Some information comes from the Quran, the Sahih Hadith Bukhari & the Hadith Muslim

The initial revelation to Muhammad occurred in 610 CE, as per Islamic tradition. During this event, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) 'allegedly' visited the prophet, imparting the foundational teachings that would eventually form the Qur'an.


The identity of the entity communicating with Muhammad during his initial revelation is a matter of faith and interpretation. While Islamic tradition attributes it to the angel Jibril (Gabriel), perspectives may vary. Some individuals argue that without empirical evidence, the possibility exists that the source of the revelation could be another entity, potentially rooted in pre-Islamic pagan beliefs. These diverse viewpoints reflect the complex nature of religious interpretation and historical analysis. Muhammad, who was illiterate, was also epileptic and perhaps schizophrenic since he heard voices no one else ever heard.

The Quran talks about how the “Angel” instilled fear in Mohammad that he even thought of killing himself, Mohammad himself “thought” he was possessed by a demon.


Khadija brought Muhammad to her Christian cousin, Waraca, an elderly and blind Christian scholar. It was Waraca who clarified to Muhammad that the being he had encountered was the angel Gabriel, not a Jinn. Waraca conveyed to Muhammad that the same Gabriel had brought revelations to Moses, known as the Namus. He forewarned Muhammad that, like the prophets before him, he would face persecution and rejection from his own people and the Jews. Despite these challenges, Waraca pledged his wholehearted support to Muhammad, promising assistance if he lived to witness the trials that lay ahead.

During the subsequent three years, Muhammad did not have any encounters with the being identified as Gabriel. According to Muslim scholars, this period was utilized by Muhammad to cultivate a closer relationship with Gabriel. In contrast, some Western scholars posit that Muhammad spent this time under the mentorship of Waraca, his Christian cousin. During this mentorship, he is believed to have focused on gaining knowledge about Judaism and Christianity, suggesting a broader intellectual and cultural exploration during this phase of his life.

Muhammad found himself surrounded by Christians and Jews in a region where Christianity had been established about 500 years prior to his time. Dissatisfied with Arabian polytheism, he observed that both Jews and Christians had their own prophets and holy scriptures. Fueled by a sense of Arab pride and nationalism, Muhammad came to believe that Arabs, as descendants of Abraham through Ishmael, needed their own prophet and holy book. Convinced that he was chosen by Allah for this purpose, Muhammad, armed with fragmented biblical stories, engaged in prolonged fasting and prayer in caves. During these periods of trance, he experienced recollections and revelations that seemed to blend with a new sense of reality. Muhammad, known to have suffered from seizures and hallucinations, underwent a transformative process that contributed to the development of his prophetic message.

Some critics argue that Satan, aiming to divert people from accepting Jesus, could have exploited this situation. According to this viewpoint, Satan allegedly presented himself as Gabriel to Muhammad in the desert, claiming that Jesus was merely a man and promoting Islam as the true path to heaven. This interpretation underscores skepticism about the divine nature of Muhammad's revelations and suggests alternative motives for the origin of Islamic teachings.

2 Corinthians 11:14–15
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.


Evaluating the impact of Islam over the course of 14 centuries, some critics argue that its historical outcomes include instances of violence, disorder, and gender inequality. When examining the governance of Islamic countries, they point to concerns such as kleptocracy and rule by powerful elites, contributing to issues like poverty, illiteracy, and health problems stemming from consanguineous marriages. From this perspective, critics assert that Islam, as an ideology, has had adverse consequences for a significant population since its establishment.

Some critics argue that Muhammad, initially a merchant, opportunistically transitioned into a warlord during a period when the Persian and Roman empires were weakened by plagues in the 6th Century. They contend that Muhammad recognized the marketability of a political ideology that aligned with the prevalent criminal behavior of 7th Century Arabs and Berbers in the Saudi peninsula. This perspective suggests that Muhammad strategically marketed an ideology permitting actions such as killing, theft, rape, and enslavement, presenting it as a 'Divine Revelation.' The inclusion of Jewish and Christian characters in the narrative is seen as a tactic to make the ideology more appealing to the people of the 7th Century. Critics view this as a shrewd and calculated move on Muhammad's part.

Muhammad Jibril.jpg
 
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Never an answer ,,, only always the most asked question: Why?
 
In answer to the title question...we'll never know. But it's a great question!
Actually, the text is a bit misleading in that approaching Muhammad's alleged encounter with Jibril from a Judeo-Christian lens is unfair to Islamic philosophy. But, I included it nevertheless . . . because I like stirring the pot!

From a strict Western Left Hand Path stance, any form of the Prince 0f Darkness (Satan/Iblis) would not endanger Mankind since the Prince 0f Darkness' goal is to emancipate Mankind from the delusion of Religion . . .
 
Actually, the text is a bit misleading in that approaching Muhammad's alleged encounter with Jibril from a Judeo-Christian lens is unfair to Islamic philosophy. But, I included it nevertheless . . . because I like stirring the pot!

From a strict Western Left Hand Path stance, any form of the Prince 0f Darkness (Satan/Iblis) would not endanger Mankind since the Prince 0f Darkness' goal is to emancipate Mankind from the delusion of Religion . . .
The Prince of Darkness needs to step it up!
 
I don't follow your line of reasoning with your two posts, what are you talking about?
Ah sorry,

I thought I was still posting in the original Was Muhammad Really Talking to Jibril? thread that you started in the Islam forum

... which was then moved to the Abrahamic Religions section

... and which you then requested be deleted

... before changing the name of the thread and rewriting the opening post of that thread

... and then starting a new one here in the LHP forum, with the same name as the original ...

So you will understand I was a little confused as the conversation was happening quite fast at the time.

Anyway, it's all fixed now, and the original thread in the Abrahamic section has been closed for further replies, but with the original thread title and original opening post restored to avoid further confusion. Ok?
 
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Ah sorry,

I thought I was still posting in the original Was Muhammad Really Talking to Jibril? thread that you started in the Islam forum

... which was then moved to the Abrahamic Religions section

... and which you then requested be deleted

... before changing the name of the thread and rewriting the opening post of that thread

... and then starting a new one here in the LHP forum, with the same name as the original ...

So you will understand I was a little confused as the conversation was happening quite fast at the time.

Anyway, it's all fixed now, and the original thread in the Abrahamic section has been closed for further replies, but with the original thread title and original opening post restored to avoid further confusion. Ok?
Not what I wanted, but who am I . . .
 
The thread was better suited with its original title and content responses in the Abrahamic section, I do agree.

Too late now ...
You can thank your admin buddy Thomas for that . . .
 
Some information comes from the Quran, the Sahih Hadith Bukhari & the Hadith Muslim

The initial revelation to Muhammad occurred in 610 CE, as per Islamic tradition. During this event, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) 'allegedly' visited the prophet, imparting the foundational teachings that would eventually form the Qur'an.


The identity of the entity communicating with Muhammad during his initial revelation is a matter of faith and interpretation. While Islamic tradition attributes it to the angel Jibril (Gabriel), perspectives may vary. Some individuals argue that without empirical evidence, the possibility exists that the source of the revelation could be another entity, potentially rooted in pre-Islamic pagan beliefs.
For sure, he had that background, but he felt that this background was not helping him to explain what it was
These diverse viewpoints reflect the complex nature of religious interpretation and historical analysis. Muhammad, who was illiterate, was also epileptic and perhaps schizophrenic since he heard voices no one else ever heard.
There's not much of historical analysis possible because the main sources are religious, and, in fact, it is finally all about religion. Just having visions is not so typical for schizophrenia; those who suffer from mainly have the problem that they cannot discern reality from imagination, which is not the case of Muhammad (p.b.u.h)
What makes you think he may have suffered from epilepsy?
The Quran talks about how the “Angel” instilled fear in Mohammad that he even thought of killing himself, Mohammad himself “thought” he was possessed by a demon.
because he had no idea what it could be.
Khadija brought Muhammad to her Christian cousin, Waraca, an elderly and blind Christian scholar. It was Waraca who clarified to Muhammad that the being he had encountered was the angel Gabriel, not a Jinn. Waraca conveyed to Muhammad that the same Gabriel had brought revelations to Moses, known as the Namus. He forewarned Muhammad that, like the prophets before him, he would face persecution and rejection from his own people and the Jews. Despite these challenges, Waraca pledged his wholehearted support to Muhammad, promising assistance if he lived to witness the trials that lay ahead.
Makes sense to assume that Waraqa was the one who explained him a lot.
During the subsequent three years, Muhammad did not have any encounters with the being identified as Gabriel. According to Muslim scholars, this period was utilized by Muhammad to cultivate a closer relationship with Gabriel. In contrast, some Western scholars posit that Muhammad spent this time under the mentorship of Waraca, his Christian cousin. During this mentorship, he is believed to have focused on gaining knowledge about Judaism and Christianity, suggesting a broader intellectual and cultural exploration during this phase of his life.

Muhammad found himself surrounded by Christians and Jews in a region where Christianity had been established about 500 years prior to his time. Dissatisfied with Arabian polytheism, he observed that both Jews and Christians had their own prophets and holy scriptures. Fueled by a sense of Arab pride and nationalism, Muhammad came to believe that Arabs, as descendants of Abraham through Ishmael, needed their own prophet and holy book. Convinced that he was chosen by Allah for this purpose, Muhammad, armed with fragmented biblical stories, engaged in prolonged fasting and prayer in caves. During these periods of trance, he experienced recollections and revelations that seemed to blend with a new sense of reality. Muhammad, known to have suffered from seizures and hallucinations, underwent a transformative process that contributed to the development of his prophetic message.
A possible scenario, still.
Some critics argue that Satan, aiming to divert people from accepting Jesus, could have exploited this situation.
those some people were certainly Christian apologetics.
According to this viewpoint, Satan allegedly presented himself as Gabriel to Muhammad in the desert, claiming that Jesus was merely a man and promoting Islam as the true path to heaven. This interpretation underscores skepticism about the divine nature of Muhammad's revelations and suggests alternative motives for the origin of Islamic teachings.

2 Corinthians 11:14–15
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Evaluating the impact of Islam over the course of 14 centuries, some critics argue that its historical outcomes include instances of violence, disorder, and gender inequality.
The Islamic rulers conquered a lot. I read in a Mandean document, "if they observed what they pray, we could believe". Similar to the European colonists, they behaved so that I have no words for it, and preached the Gospel.
The the result of the Muslim conquest was quite good; al-Andaluz was certainly better than the Reconquista regime.
Gender inequality is nothing that has spread out with Islam. The roles and rights of men and women have been quite similar in most places 150 years ago. Difference pops up because the European culture has changed
When examining the governance of Islamic countries, they point to concerns such as kleptocracy and rule by powerful elites, contributing to issues like poverty, illiteracy, and health problems stemming from consanguineous marriages.
But that's not what Islam teaches. There's no government ruling according to Islam, not even according to the Sharia, which is a man-made interpretation only.
From this perspective, critics assert that Islam, as an ideology, has had adverse consequences for a significant population since its establishment.

Some critics argue that Muhammad, initially a merchant, opportunistically transitioned into a warlord during a period when the Persian and Roman empires were weakened by plagues in the 6th Century.
hat's been after him. But, of course, they were weak because they were no good for their citizens.
They contend that Muhammad recognized the marketability of a political ideology that aligned with the prevalent criminal behavior of 7th Century Arabs and Berbers in the Saudi peninsula. This perspective suggests that Muhammad strategically marketed an ideology permitting actions such as killing, theft, rape,
haram, all of them
and enslavement,
suffocated, as it's been forbidden to make Muslim slaves.
presenting it as a 'Divine Revelation.' The inclusion of Jewish and Christian characters in the narrative is seen as a tactic to make the ideology more appealing to the people of the 7th Century. Critics view this as a shrewd and calculated move on Muhammad's part.
Which contradicts the first thesis that he learned from a Christian to recognise his vision as an inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
 
For sure, he had that background, but he felt that this background was not helping him to explain what it was

There's not much of historical analysis possible because the main sources are religious, and, in fact, it is finally all about religion. Just having visions is not so typical for schizophrenia; those who suffer from mainly have the problem that they cannot discern reality from imagination, which is not the case of Muhammad (p.b.u.h)
What makes you think he may have suffered from epilepsy?
Because history shows that he did . . . why would you say: "For sure, he had that background" and then ask me "What makes you think he may have suffered from epilepsy?" ?
 
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