Genesis

It was important to its culture of origin, as other creation stories are to other cultures
I think it is important to mankind even now. Mircea Eliade wrote about the Axis Mundi, center. Center in the universe and center within each of us. The tree of life is in the center of the garden. I believe the tree of life is a metaphor for the energetic place within each of us where we exist in balance and harmony with ourselves and the universe around us. Rivers may well be a metaphor for energy, flowing energy coming into the center of the garden from each of the cardinal directions.

Pairs and opposites is another big part of this. Light/dark, good/evil, male/female, adam/eve, cain/able etc.... Thoughts and energy always come in pairs and always opposites. Yin/yang. There is a place in center, if we can get there that transcends these where we don't create with out thoughts; we just live in balance with what is and flow with it.

I also think the ever-turning fiery sword, which is overlooked is of significant importance. It is not there to keep us out, it is there is help us gain re-entry into the garden and the tree of life.

Thanks brian
 
Do you think the story in Genesis, from the beginning up to Adam and Eve being escorted out of the garden, is historical fact handed down through the generations or do you think it is a metaphor for something? If you think it is a metaphor what do you think the metaphor means? thanks brian
Myths are certainly a figurative form of communication, but they are not allegories--there is no one on one connection between the story and something else. However, it is often the case that a person can find metaphorical meaning in them as applied to their own life or to events in history.

Myths are a powerful form of literature--IMHO, the MOST powerful form of literature--because more than any other genre they pass on a culture's deepest values. Because they are not obviously didactic, our filtering fences are down--they sort of slip inside to the deepest unconscious mind where they do their work without our awareness. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that a religious anthology like the Bible would include myths.

The classic must-read essay on the power of myth is "On Fairy Stories" by JRR Tolkien. coolcalvary.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/on-fairy-stories1.pdf

Here is my take on Genesis 3. I see it as almost a race "memory" of the evolution of our moral sentience. Let me tell the story, but in different words.

Long ago, in the primeval forest, humanity was simply another creature. Our choices were made according to our animal instincts. At that time, we had no moral conscience. Just as one can't blame a lion for eating a gazelle alive, the things we did were without blame. It was a state of innocence, of morally unconscious peace. Like all creatures, we were in harmony with nature, with each other, with ourselves, and with God. It was like a beautiful Garden.

But evolution didn't stop, and two new instincts evolved--empathy and a sense of fairness. These are the foundation for what we call the moral conscience. These new instincts facilitate altruism, enabling us to form cooperative groups--an incredibly adaptive ability.

But you can see the conflict coming. It was inevitable that the day would arrive where older instincts were going to conflict with our conscience. And it was inevitable that the day would come when, during that conflict, a human would opt to satiate the older instincts rather than the conscience. When that happened, the conscience rebelled, creating that awful feeling of wrongness.

With that ancient decision, our innocence vanished. A dissonance came into being. A dissonance with nature. A dissonance with each other. With ourselves. And with God. We had been "expelled from the Garden."

And so we find ourselves in our present condition, still having both the older instincts and newer conscience. We tend to describe the older instincts as "bad" or "evil" because of the harm that selfishness does. But in all fairness, these inclinations evolved for our benefit. If they suddenly vanished, we would stop having children, stop eating, no longer seek shelter. There is nothing innately wrong with gathering things to prepare for a future which might have fewer resources--it only becomes wrong when we harm another to do so, by stealing from them or exploiting them. IOW there is nothing wrong with doing good for ourselves. The problem only arises when we cross the line into hurting others for our own personal gain--THAT is when our conscience kicks in.

Another story which describes this inner battle is the very famous Cherokee tale of the two wolves. The grandfather explains to the grandson that each of us has two wolves within us: a good wolf and a bad wolf. These wolves constantly fight. The grandson asks, Which wolf will win? And the grandfather says, The one you feed.

Judaism similarly preserves the knowledge of this inner warfare with its teaching that we all have a yetzer hara, inclination to evil, and yetzer hatov, inclination to good.

I imagine that every human society has this awareness, although some articulate it more clearly than others.

That is my take on Genesis 3.
 
@IndigoChild5559 -

Note that the thread was started in the Christianity subforum. Although non-Christians are not prohibited from filing posts in the subforum, posts filed in the subforums designated for specific religions are to expected to avoid being disrespectful of those religions. There are other places on the forum where more contentious posts are more appropriate.

I have no knowledge as to why the thread was specifically filed in the Christianity subforum.
 
@IndigoChild5559 -

Note that the thread was started in the Christianity subforum. Although non-Christians are not prohibited from filing posts in the subforum, posts filed in the subforums designated for specific religions are to expected to avoid being disrespectful of those religions. There are other places on the forum where more contentious posts are more appropriate.

I have no knowledge as to why the thread was specifically filed in the Christianity subforum.
I am the original poster. I am not trying to offend anyone, if I did in some way it was purely unintentional. Just an error on my part posting it here. Brian
 
Myths are certainly a figurative form of communication, but they are not allegories--there is no one on one connection between the story and something else. However, it is often the case that a person can find metaphorical meaning in them as applied to their own life or to events in history.

Myths are a powerful form of literature--IMHO, the MOST powerful form of literature--because more than any other genre they pass on a culture's deepest values. Because they are not obviously didactic, our filtering fences are down--they sort of slip inside to the deepest unconscious mind where they do their work without our awareness. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that a religious anthology like the Bible would include myths.

The classic must-read essay on the power of myth is "On Fairy Stories" by JRR Tolkien. coolcalvary.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/on-fairy-stories1.pdf

Here is my take on Genesis 3. I see it as almost a race "memory" of the evolution of our moral sentience. Let me tell the story, but in different words.

Long ago, in the primeval forest, humanity was simply another creature. Our choices were made according to our animal instincts. At that time, we had no moral conscience. Just as one can't blame a lion for eating a gazelle alive, the things we did were without blame. It was a state of innocence, of morally unconscious peace. Like all creatures, we were in harmony with nature, with each other, with ourselves, and with God. It was like a beautiful Garden.

But evolution didn't stop, and two new instincts evolved--empathy and a sense of fairness. These are the foundation for what we call the moral conscience. These new instincts facilitate altruism, enabling us to form cooperative groups--an incredibly adaptive ability.

But you can see the conflict coming. It was inevitable that the day would arrive where older instincts were going to conflict with our conscience. And it was inevitable that the day would come when, during that conflict, a human would opt to satiate the older instincts rather than the conscience. When that happened, the conscience rebelled, creating that awful feeling of wrongness.

With that ancient decision, our innocence vanished. A dissonance came into being. A dissonance with nature. A dissonance with each other. With ourselves. And with God. We had been "expelled from the Garden."

And so we find ourselves in our present condition, still having both the older instincts and newer conscience. We tend to describe the older instincts as "bad" or "evil" because of the harm that selfishness does. But in all fairness, these inclinations evolved for our benefit. If they suddenly vanished, we would stop having children, stop eating, no longer seek shelter. There is nothing innately wrong with gathering things to prepare for a future which might have fewer resources--it only becomes wrong when we harm another to do so, by stealing from them or exploiting them. IOW there is nothing wrong with doing good for ourselves. The problem only arises when we cross the line into hurting others for our own personal gain--THAT is when our conscience kicks in.

Another story which describes this inner battle is the very famous Cherokee tale of the two wolves. The grandfather explains to the grandson that each of us has two wolves within us: a good wolf and a bad wolf. These wolves constantly fight. The grandson asks, Which wolf will win? And the grandfather says, The one you feed.

Judaism similarly preserves the knowledge of this inner warfare with its teaching that we all have a yetzer hara, inclination to evil, and yetzer hatov, inclination to good.

I imagine that every human society has this awareness, although some articulate it more clearly than others.

That is my take on Genesis 3.
Indigo., A couple questions if I may. Not sure what Genesis 3 is? As i read your post, you believe the spiritual half of our being evolved from the human animal man? Is this correct? thanks Brian
 
Indigo., A couple questions if I may. Not sure what Genesis 3 is? As i read your post, you believe the spiritual half of our being evolved from the human animal man? Is this correct? thanks Brian
Genesis 3 is the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil after being tempted by the serpent. Their disobedience brings shame, expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and consequences for humanity.

I don't divide our "spiritual half" from our "physical half." It is possible that we have some kind or spirit that continues on after death, but I'm not convinced of it. There is certainly nothing in the Hebrew words for soul that imply there is. I see us as whole beings, and our "soul" is simply whatever it is that takes the network of molecules composing our bodies and makes it alive. Animals have souls as well.

It appears from context that by "spiritual half" you are referring to our conscience. Yes. I absolutely think that our consciences have biologically evolved. Further, we are not the only creature on that path. If empathy and a sense of fairness are the foundation of conscience in the way I am suggesting, then other animals such as chimps are well on their way to becoming morally sentient beings.

I am indeed a heartfelt theist, believing that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But I think science has done a pretty good job uncovering the HOW. I have no problems at all with the idea that the human life we see today evolved from what was originally self-replicating molecules. Because it was God who implemented the laws of nature, everything that has unfolded due to those laws is, by definition, God's doing. That would include the evolution of morally sentient human life. You might say that evolution is God's modus operandi.

Religious people of the progressive variety are not very common in internet religion forums, and I think I am a first experience for many people, who just don't know what to make of me. I hope that I am explaining myself in a way that is easily understood, but if you feel I am not being clear, just let me know and I will do my best to further explain.
 
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I am the original poster. I am not trying to offend anyone, if I did in some way it was purely unintentional. Just an error on my part posting it here. Brian
I don't think you were, nor did I see any intent. @RabbiO made the point, and I think it's valid, and I had no intention of upsetting you by moving the post to the general Abrahamic board rather than the specifically Christian.
 
Genesis 3 is the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil after being tempted by the serpent. Their disobedience brings shame, expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and consequences for humanity.

I don't divide our "spiritual half" from our "physical half." It is possible that we have some kind or spirit that continues on after death, but I'm not convinced of it. There is certainly nothing in the Hebrew words for soul that imply there is. I see us as whole beings, and our "soul" is simply whatever it is that takes the network of molecules composing our bodies and makes it alive. Animals have souls as well.

It appears from context that by "spiritual half" you are referring to our conscience. Yes. I absolutely think that our consciences have biologically evolved. Further, we are not the only creature on that path. If empathy and a sense of fairness are the foundation of conscience in the way I am suggesting, then other animals such as chimps are well on their way to becoming morally sentient beings.

I am indeed a heartfelt theist, believing that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But I think science has done a pretty good job uncovering the HOW. I have no problems at all with the idea that the human life we see today evolved from what was originally self-replicating molecules. Because it was God who implemented the laws of nature, everything that has unfolded due to those laws is, by definition, God's doing. That would include the evolution of morally sentient human life. You might say that evolution is God's modus operandi.

Religious people of the progressive variety are not very common in internet religion forums, and I think I am a first experience for many people, who just don't know what to make of me. I hope that I am explaining myself in a way that is easily understood, but if you feel I am not being clear, just let me know and I will do my best to further explain.
What makes Genesis from the Torah or King James bible different from Genesis 3?

I am aware of my dual nature. What I've read there and other sources leads me to believe we were the human animal man with our brain and senses. Lore speaks of the Watchers breeding with the race of man. I suspect this might be where out spiritual side comes from. I believe the offspring were the Nephilim. I suspect this is what we are. I think the challenge/goal is to get these two halves of ourselves to work in balance and harmony, to become One. Agreed animals have souls. I believe in reincarnation and I am aware of many past lives and some with pets I've had the blessing to be with two of them again this lifetime.

I wouldn't call my spiritual half my conscious. I think it is part of that side of me that can connect with the higher power in the universe, every now and then when I get centered enough.

There is this side of me that I believe transcends this physical body this lifetime, but comes back lifetime after lifetime to keep learning and growing. What ever we choose to call this energy. I have a lot of personal experience going back to May 1999 of running into or being presented with people/experiences from past lives that I can heal and transcend if I choose to do so. In the healing and letting go my connection with a higher power/God/the universe grows stronger and I have greater clarity of life choices as I progress; the best path for me at that moment.

Each time I heal something I move closer to the Source. Someone told me once, "what will you do for your growth today? You are either moving towards the Source or away from it." Made me really think about my day to day practice and being in the moment flowing with what is.

Thanks for the conversation.

Brian
 
What makes Genesis from the Torah or King James bible different from Genesis 3?
Happy to clarify.

Genesis 3 simply refers to the third chapter of book of Genesis in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible, also called the Books of Moses, Books of Law, and the Pentateuch). The King James Version is a translation of the Torah, which was written in ancient Hebrew, into an older version of English, which means the book of Genesis in the KJV also has that third chapter story, but in English.

Oh, just a bit of trivia for my non-Jewish friends. The original name for Genesis in Hebrew is בְּרֵאשִׁית (Bereshit), which means “In the beginning.” Genesis is a Greek approximation.

Note: I realize that KJV only-ists try to make arguments that it is a better translation. It's not. I think what motivates them is something else entirely, and that they are simply not conscious of it. Deeply religious people often have problems putting their faith and subjective religious experiences into words. It just always seems that ordinary words can't capture the depth or the power of these experiences. It HELPS to have a sacred language. For me that language is Hebrew. For pre-Vatican 2 Catholics, it was Latin. For many Protestants, the significant differences of King James English enables it to act as their sacred language. That's why you see them responding to it in a deeper, more emotional level.
 
Happy to clarify.

Genesis 3 simply refers to the third chapter of book of Genesis in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible, also called the Books of Moses, Books of Law, and the Pentateuch). The King James Version is a translation of the Torah, which was written in ancient Hebrew, into an older version of English, which means the book of Genesis in the KJV also has that third chapter story, but in English.

Oh, just a bit of trivia for my non-Jewish friends. The original name for Genesis in Hebrew is בְּרֵאשִׁית (Bereshit), which means “In the beginning.” Genesis is a Greek approximation.

Note: I realize that KJV only-ists try to make arguments that it is a better translation. It's not. I think what motivates them is something else entirely, and that they are simply not conscious of it. Deeply religious people often have problems putting their faith and subjective religious experiences into words. It just always seems that ordinary words can't capture the depth or the power of these experiences. It HELPS to have a sacred language. For me that language is Hebrew. For pre-Vatican 2 Catholics, it was Latin. For many Protestants, the significant differences of King James English enables it to act as their sacred language. That's why you see them responding to it in a deeper, more emotional level.
Thanks for the clarification, I understand your designation. Brian
 
We had a lengthy discussion about this recently on another thread. I believe that there is at least some sort of truth involved in the story.

Almost every major global culture mentions their own version of the flood story. The Garden of Eden story is echoed in stories from that region. And the Tree of Life, while absent from pre-Hebrew scripture, shows up in art in early Mesopotamian culture. Many of the patriarchs in Genesis are gods in the stories of other cultures. So there very well may be an original true story.
 
We had a lengthy discussion about this recently on another thread. I believe that there is at least some sort of truth involved in the story.

Almost every major global culture mentions their own version of the flood story. The Garden of Eden story is echoed in stories from that region. And the Tree of Life, while absent from pre-Hebrew scripture, shows up in art in early Mesopotamian culture. Many of the patriarchs in Genesis are gods in the stories of other cultures. So there very well may be an original true story.
I understand what you are saying. I reserve judgment.
 
We had a lengthy discussion about this recently on another thread. I believe that there is at least some sort of truth involved in the story.

Almost every major global culture mentions their own version of the flood story. The Garden of Eden story is echoed in stories from that region. And the Tree of Life, while absent from pre-Hebrew scripture, shows up in art in early Mesopotamian culture. Many of the patriarchs in Genesis are gods in the stories of other cultures. So there very well may be an original true story.
Moral: Looking beyond or behind the metaphors I've found similarities in more ancient cultures. I think the tree of life is center since it is placed in the center of the garden. The rivers flow into it; the center. Rivers representing energy, the garden representing a place within each of us where we have our energy aligned within and without.

The Yellow Emperor is from China circa @2500 BCE:

Under this heading on the listing for The Yellow Emperor on Wikipedia it states: Symbol of the centre of the universe

“As the Yellow Deity with Four Faces (黃帝四面 Huángdì Sìmiàn) he represents the centre of the universe and vision of the unity which controls the four directions. It is explained in the Huangdi Sijing ("Four Scriptures of the Yellow Emperor") that regulating "heart within brings order outside". In order to reign, one must "reduce himself" abandoning emotions, "drying up like a corpse", never allowing oneself to be carried away, as the Yellow Emperor himself did during his three years of refuge on Mount Bowang in order to find himself according to the myth. This practice creates an internal void where all the vital forces of creation gather, and the more indeterminate they remain, the more powerful they will be.[123]

It is from this centre that equilibrium and harmony emanate, equilibrium of the vital organs which becomes harmony between the person and the environment. As sovereign of the centre, the Yellow Emperor is the very image of the concentration or re-centering of the self. By self-control, taking charge of his own body one becomes powerful outside. The centre is also the vital point in the microcosm by means of which the internal universe viewed as an altar is created. The body is a universe, and by going into himself and by incorporating the fundamental structures of the universe, the sage will gain access to the gates of Heaven, the unique point where communication between Heaven, Earth and Man can occur. The centre is the convergence of within and outside, the contraction of chaos on the point which is equidistant from all directions. It is the place which is no place, where all creation is born and dies.[123]

The Great Deity of the Central Peak (中岳大帝 Zhōngyuèdàdì) is another epithet representing Huangdi as the hub of creation, the axis mundi (which in Chinese mythology is Kunlun) that is the manifestation of the divine order in physical reality, that opens to immortality.”

Thanks.

Brian
 
We had a lengthy discussion about this recently on another thread. I believe that there is at least some sort of truth involved in the story.

Almost every major global culture mentions their own version of the flood story. The Garden of Eden story is echoed in stories from that region. And the Tree of Life, while absent from pre-Hebrew scripture, shows up in art in early Mesopotamian culture. Many of the patriarchs in Genesis are gods in the stories of other cultures. So there very well may be an original true story.
Moral:

Here's another ancient image from Sumerian culture. I see the ruler/leader seated on the right, with three wise men/visitors(?) in front of him. One of these has his hand on a gift to the leader.(?) Looks like he is presenting something to him. This round disc is divided into eight quadrants with a defined center. Four of these dividing lines appear to be solid(straight) shapes on the cardinal directions, while the other shapes are wavy. I see this as denoting movement/flow. Is this a depiction of wise men presenting the ruler with a representation of a device that depicts center with movement of energy flowing into and away from center. No one knows what this circular item represents. Look above this device do you see a being depicted with lines holding this device or is he a spiritual being bestowing this wisdom on these wise men and the ruler? I don't know what the words read that are on this. brian

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