What is a Gospel?

After some more reading and thinking, it looks to me like no one has ever argued that late dating of the gospels excludes Papias being right about the sources for the gospels, and no one has ever given any reason, other than ideological, for thinking that he was wrong.
 
As a Christian, I'd say the one thing indisputable, and indisputably matters, is the Resurrection, but that's also the most challenging truth to accept.
I'm resurrecting (if I may say :D) this thread, because I have a new thought about the resurrection. I think that focusing on the resurrection of Jesus is missing the whole point of everything that Paul says about Jesus being raised.

First I'll say that it's an open question for me what kind of body Jesus was in, during the days before his ascension. What Paul says about that is very confusing to me, and I have no clue what Paul means by a spiritual body.

I don't think that has anything whatsoever to do with what Paul says about Jesus being raised. I think that he is talking about the ascension, and Jesus as the judge on the day of judgment.
 
I think that focusing on the resurrection of Jesus is missing the whole point of everything that Paul says about Jesus being raised.
The physical resurrection is a sign of the other. The one idea does not exclude the other?

I don't think that has anything whatsoever to do with what Paul says about Jesus being raised. I think that he is talking about the ascension, and Jesus as the judge on the day of judgment.
Clearly he meant all that too. The resurrection is taken overall in context of the various NT accounts?

First I'll say that it's an open question for me what kind of body Jesus was in, during the days before his ascension. What Paul says about that is very confusing to me, and I have no clue what Paul means by a spiritual body.
Other parts of the NT describe a physical resurrection, where Christ is able to choose and control his physical appearance, eating with men and appearing and disappearing at will.

Some Muslims use this to say that Jesus did not die on the cross, but somehow escaped death and reappeared afterwards. That does not take account of how his closest followers could walk and talk with him and then only recognize him when Jesus revealed that it was himself.
 
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The physical resurrection is a sign of the other. The one idea does not exclude the other?

Clearly he meant all that too. The resurrection is taken overall in context of the various NT accounts?

Other parts of the NT describe a physical resurrection, where Christ is able to choose and control his physical appearance, eating with men and appearing and disappearing at will.

Some Muslims use this to say that Jesus did not die on the cross, but somehow escaped death and reappeared afterwards. That does not take account of how his closest followers could walk and talk with him and then only recognize him when Jesus revealed that it was himself.
Apologies for my hyperbole and recklessness, when I said that people are missing the whole point. Looking again at.1 Corinthians 15:1-12, it looks to me like Paul is saying that what he is preaching about is the appearances of Jesus between Easter and the Ascension, not, as I was saying, after the Ascension.
 
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If you don't believe everything that the fathers said about sources for the gospels, will you please tell me why?
It's not that I don't believe the Fathers, it's rather we have to be really careful about what they said, and how we interpret what they said.

The key figure in this is Papias of Hieropolis (c60-130CE), being the closest to events.

Papias, who knew at least some of the apostles, says that Mark was the interpreter of Peter’s preaching in Rome, whereas contemporary scholarship, for the most part, states that Mark, like the other Gospels, is anonymous and that the attribution to Mark is a later addition.

What we lack, in all of this, is a chain of evidence. We're dependent upon claims made by exegetes, and there are reasons, scholars assert, to question their reliability ... what we take in faith, however, is a different matter.

In faith I believe Mark listened to Peter's preaching, and used that as the basic material upon which he composed his narrative.

If, therefore, there is a direct link between Peter and Mark, and through Mark to Matthew and Luke, and Luke to Acts, one can see evidence of a 'Petrine tradition', if only because of the prominence which the Synoptics and Acts give Peter, while James, who was a foundational figure in the post-crucifixion community is hardly mentioned at all.

The Johannine materials (Gospel, Epistles and Apocalypse of John) are, according to Papias, attributed to John the Elder, and not the apostle John b. Zebedee. Polycrates agrees with Papias on this point.

Papias on Matthew famously claimed that he wrote a Hebrew Gospel (either Hebrew or Aramaic), a view echoed by ancient authorities, whereas it's generally held that Matthew was composed in Greek and not translated from a Semitic language.

A note here is that Josephus claimed to pen an Aramaic version of The Jewish War, as well as a Greek one. These are two separate works, not a translation from one tongue into another, but two independent accounts by a bilingual author.

Or it may be that our canonical Matthew is not the Hebrew Gospel Papias is referring to, but a separate text, and that the Hebrew is lost. Some argue a free translation into Greek, others that that when Papias writes "Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ", he means a Hebrew style of Greek.

And Q just muddies the waters even further.
 
I'm resurrecting (if I may say :D) this thread, because I have a new thought about the resurrection. I think that focusing on the resurrection of Jesus is missing the whole point of everything that Paul says about Jesus being raised.
OK, what do you see as the whole point?

First I'll say that it's an open question for me what kind of body Jesus was in, during the days before his ascension. What Paul says about that is very confusing to me, and I have no clue what Paul means by a spiritual body.
OK. That is very much an open question, but 1 Corinthians 15 gives us pointers ...
 
I was thinking that whenever Paul talks about Jesus being raised, it's about Jesus's authority from God.
Ah ... OK ... I don't agree with that. It seems definitely to be about the resurrection.
 
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