What makes someone evil ?

RJM said:
Bahaullah is talking about himself here?

Are people 'the worst evil' who deliberately choose to disbelieve that Bahaullah is God's only true messenger to all mankind and his writings the apex guide for all mankind, informing and correcting all previous scriptures for the next 1000 years?
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You can find the same advice by Jesus in the Bible RJM

Mark 16:16: "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

John 8:24: "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Quran likewise advise us that acceptance of the Messengers is acceptance of God, and rejection of the Messengers is rejection of God.

Its a quandary, we as humans all face, God tests His servants.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
@Tony Bristow-Stagg

If you suggest that evil is to know what is good, and deliberately turn away from it, then you could be on a right track in an ancient debate about what evil is.

But if you insist on turning the discussion into a platform for promoting Baha'i belief in Bahaullah as the new Christ and so on, you are swerving off into the long grass, IMO

Anyway, it's none of my business ...
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I am answering questions from the perspective of the Baha'i Writings....which the following
RJM said:
If you suggest that evil is to know what is good, and deliberately turn away from it, then you could be on a right track in an ancient debate about what evil is
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Was being offered.

You took the conversation to other levels RJM.

The question what could possibly be the worst evil, I replied it is the level of the "Anti-Christ.

Anyone who has not accepted a messenger, cannot be an "Anti-Christ. If a person persecuted them, or slandered them, then there would be something to answer for, as their own scriptures would be used as judgement.

The Bible offers passages about persecution and slander against the innocent.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
"I'm the one that's gonna have to die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life the way I want to."
--Jimi Hendrix
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Personally, I see that is why humanity becomes disunited, when the self, as I, becomes dominant

Of course, I have a quote ;)

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." - Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We must live our lives, as God advised us to do so, which means many times our lives are shaped around the needs of family, friends and communities, which is not always how we want to!

We can consider that true liberty exists in submission unto God and His commands. A challenge Jesus Christ gave us.

Finally liberated from I

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." - Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336
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The difference is between the words liberty and unbridled license but concede a subtlety of translation.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
We must live our lives, as God advised us to do so, which means many times our lives are shaped around the needs of family, friends and communities, which is not always how we want to!
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Jimi Hendrix wasn't a nasty or bad person. He was saying that nobody had the right to tell him what to think or what was 'sinful' and to cut his hair and get a job, and how he should go about his own day, according to their own conservative standards, imo

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
A challenge Jesus Christ gave us.
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Although you are always talking about Jesus Christ and quoting from the New Testament, you never actually read it, so you don't really know, except what you get from your Baha'i writings
 
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RJM said:
The difference is between the words liberty and unbridled license but concede a subtlety of translation.


Jimi Hendrix wasn't a nasty or bad person. He was saying that nobody had the right to tell him what to think or what was 'sinful' and to cut his hair and get a job, and how he should go about his own day, according to their own conservative standards, imo

Although you are always talking about Jesus Christ and quoting from the New Testament, you never actually read it, so you don't really know, except what you get from your Baha'i writings
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A serial killer is evil. And they live by the same principle of just doing whatever they want that Jimi Hendrix was preaching.
 
ProblemOfEvil said:
A serial killer is evil. And they live by the same principle of just doing whatever they want that Jimi Hendrix was preaching.
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RJM said:
And?

Jimi Hendrix was a hippy. He wasn't into killing anyone ...
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The point that @ProblemOfEvil was expounding was also not saying anything bad about Jimi Hendrix, IMHO.

The statement was also giving a critical examination on our current desires for "Liberty". It is a worthwhile topic to meditate upon and indeed discuss.

Consider the world we live in, so many millions with nothing, no food, no water, no shelter. Then the few with obscene wealth, with more than anyone could ever need for a million lifetimes. "So let me live my life the way I want to", is a statement from the "I have all I need", privileged part of humanity.

Its about the current ill mindset existing in this age, where I is dominant over "we". The elixer pushes aside the I in favour of service to all.

Those statements are not against any person, it is all about changing the current "mindset", which many years of turning further and further away from God, has given us in our nature and nurture.

I am sure you can also see that RJM, you are fair and just.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The point that @ProblemOfEvil was expounding was also not saying anything bad about Jimi Hendrix, IMHO.

The statement was also giving a critical examination on our current desires for "Liberty". It is a worthwhile topic to meditate upon and indeed discuss.

Consider the world we live in, so many millions with nothing, no food, no water, no shelter. Then the few with obscene wealth, with more than anyone could ever need for a million lifetimes. "So let me live my life the way I want to", is a statement from the "I have all I need", privileged part of humanity.

Its about the current ill mindset existing in this age, where I is dominant over "we". The elixer pushes aside the I in favour of service to all.

Those statements are not against any person, it is all about changing the current "mindset", which many years of turning further and further away from God, has given us in our nature and nurture.

I am sure you can also see that RJM, you are fair and just.

Regards Tony
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Tony: perhaps the serial killer was also left handed like Jimi Hendrix, or perhaps they both had black hair or perhaps they both didn't like mayonnaise on their chips. It's not meaningful.
 
RJM said:
Tony: perhaps the serial killer was also left handed like Jimi Hendrix, or perhaps they both had black hair or perhaps they both didn't like mayonnaise on their chips. It's not meaningful.
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No worries, the quote was just posted randomly, it was meaninglessness. ;)

Personally I saw it as a good topic starter.

Regards Tony
 
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ProblemOfEvil said:
What would be the list of things that would determine if someone is evil ?
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I don't think I'd have a list, honestly. I'm not even sure "evil" is something a person simply IS.

Obviously cruelty, intentionally harming others, coercion, exploitation or what have you, matters. But context, intent, relationships and consequences matter too.

Someone can do something absolutely horrific by our standards, but does that mean "evil" is now some intrinsic property of that person?

I guess that's where I get stuck on this question.

Are we actually describing what someone does, or are we saying something about what they fundamentally ARE?

And if it's the latter, how would we determine that?
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The point that @ProblemOfEvil was expounding was also not saying anything bad about Jimi Hendrix, IMHO.

The statement was also giving a critical examination on our current desires for "Liberty". It is a worthwhile topic to meditate upon and indeed discuss.

Consider the world we live in, so many millions with nothing, no food, no water, no shelter. Then the few with obscene wealth, with more than anyone could ever need for a million lifetimes. "So let me live my life the way I want to", is a statement from the "I have all I need", privileged part of humanity.

Its about the current ill mindset existing in this age, where I is dominant over "we". The elixer pushes aside the I in favour of service to all.

Those statements are not against any person, it is all about changing the current "mindset", which many years of turning further and further away from God, has given us in our nature and nurture.

I am sure you can also see that RJM, you are fair and just.

Regards Tony
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Why are humans able to be allowed to have that mindset ?
 
The Hammer said:
I don't think I'd have a list, honestly. I'm not even sure "evil" is something a person simply IS.

Obviously cruelty, intentionally harming others, coercion, exploitation or what have you, matters. But context, intent, relationships and consequences matter too.

Someone can do something absolutely horrific by our standards, but does that mean "evil" is now some intrinsic property of that person?

I guess that's where I get stuck on this question.

Are we actually describing what someone does, or are we saying something about what they fundamentally ARE?

And if it's the latter, how would we determine that?
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So with the right context any evil actions can be justified.
 
ProblemOfEvil said:
So with the right context any evil actions can be justified.
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No. That's not what I said. :p

"Context matters" does not mean "the right context justifies anything." Some acts, like sexual assault, already contain the morally relevant context. Remove the violation of consent and it isn't sexual assault anymore.

How did you get from "context matters" to "anything can be justified"?
 
ProblemOfEvil said:
Why are humans able to be allowed to have that mindset ?
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They fight for the right to freedom

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The statement was also giving a critical examination on our current desires for "Liberty". It is a worthwhile topic to meditate upon and indeed discuss.
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Not to me. Unbridled license to interfere with and offend the values of others would be another topic? Where do minority freedoms give them the right to force their fringe values and language and customs upon the majority? Enforced personal pronouns, and so on?
 
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ProblemOfEvil said:
So with the right context any evil actions can be justified.
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We're extraordinarily good at finding ways to justify our own actions to make us the hero of our own story.

How others might judge that justification depends entirely on context.

"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Obi-Wan Kenobi
 
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