My Beliefs Out of a Nutshell

The Hammer

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I would describe my worldview as polytheistic, creationist, animistic, deterministic, and relational, rooted primarily in Druidry and Celtic-Germanic Heathenry.

These labels need some explanation, though, because I don't necessarily mean by them what people first assume.

At the foundation of my theology is polytheism. I believe the Gods are Many. Odin is not simply another name for Thor, Freya, Brighid, the Morrigan, or Freyr. I understand the Gods as distinct beings or powers with their own identities, relationships, personalities, histories, spheres of influence, and agency.

I also don't assume that something must be omnipotent, omniscient, morally perfect, eternal, or responsible for creating the entire universe before it can meaningfully be called a God. Those assumptions largely come from particular forms of monotheism. They aren't requirements of polytheism.

A God can be immensely powerful without being all-powerful. A God can possess tremendous wisdom without knowing everything. Gods can struggle, change, form relationships, make mistakes, suffer, and perhaps even die.

Norse mythology illustrates this particularly well. Ragnarök includes the deaths of Gods, but it is also part of a larger cycle of destruction, survival, renewal, and rebirth. Divinity does not necessarily mean immunity from becoming.

That matters to me because I don't see perfection as necessary for something to be worthy of reverence. In some ways, the limitations and struggles of the Gods make relationship with them more meaningful.

My worldview is also influenced by the Druid concept of the Three Kindreds: the Gods, the Spirits, and the Ancestors.

The Gods are not the only beings worthy of relationship or reverence. There are also the Spirits, the many beings and powers belonging to the more-than-human world, and the Ancestors, those who came before us and helped create the world into which we were born.

I understand ancestry broadly. It can include familial ancestors, cultural and historical ancestors, and even the enormous evolutionary lineage of beings through which humanity came into existence.

Likewise, when I speak about Spirits, I don't necessarily imagine nature as an otherwise dead collection of objects with invisible ghosts inserted into it. My animistic tendencies run deeper than that. A forest isn't merely lumber waiting to be harvested. A river isn't merely so many gallons of water moving downhill. An animal isn't merely biological machinery.

They are participants in a world of relationships.

And that doesn't mean abandoning biology, ecology, chemistry, or geology. Those disciplines help describe what these beings and systems are and do. Animism concerns how I understand my relationship with them.

I also don't draw a sharp boundary between nature and the divine. This is probably one of the places where my theology differs most strongly from conventional Western monotheism.

I don't imagine nature as one thing and the Gods as supernatural beings standing somewhere outside it, occasionally reaching into the universe to interfere with its machinery. The divine can exist within nature and through natural processes.

Depending on what exactly we mean by "God" or "Spirit," I am even open to understanding things such as Earth, evolution, natural systems, and other vast processes as Divine.

My working conception of divinity is fairly broad representing something greater than humanity and worthy of worship or reverence as potentially divine. But that doesn't mean everything is secretly the same God.

Recognizing connections between things doesn't require collapsing their differences.
The Many can remain genuinely Many while participating in something larger than themselves.

I also describe myself as a creationist, but not in the common young-Earth or anti-evolution sense of that word. I accept evolution, common descent, geology, cosmology, and scientific investigation. I also have no theological problem with abiogenesis if life ultimately arose from nonliving chemistry.

None of that contradicts creation in my worldview. Creation does not require the Gods to periodically violate natural laws.

If natural processes are themselves part of divine activity, then evolution can be a means of creation. Chemistry can be creative. Geological processes can be creative. Stars forming elements are creative. Organisms reproducing, mutating, evolving, dying, and becoming the material from which other life emerges are all parts of an ongoing process of creation.

So when science explains how something happens, I don't see that as automatically eliminating the possibility of Gods.

This is where I distinguish methodological naturalism from metaphysical naturalism.

Science operates through methodological naturalism: it investigates observable natural causes because those are the kinds of explanations science can test.

Metaphysical naturalism goes further and claims that natural reality is all that exists.
The first is a scientific method. The second is a philosophical position. Science can describe evolution without answering whether evolution participates in something sacred or divine.

One of the concepts that ties much of my worldview together is Wyrd. I understand this as the interconnected web of causes, relationships, actions and consequences through which reality continually unfolds.

Wyrd isn't simply "fate" in the sense that everything is following a prewritten cosmic script.I see it more as an ongoing process of becoming. Everything that exists arises within relationships to other things. Every event emerges from conditions that came before it and becomes part of the conditions from which later events emerge.

Nothing exists completely by itself. The past shapes the present. The present reshapes what becomes possible in the future.Our actions become threads in that web. And so do the actions of other people, animals, ecosystems, societies, Ancestors, Spirits, and Gods.


This is where Wyrd connects strongly with my version of determinism. I don't believe choices somehow appear from nowhere. When I make a decision, that decision arises from who I am: my biology, experiences, relationships, memories, beliefs, desires, emotions, circumstances, and reasoning. And all of those have causes.

But I don't think that means I don't make choices. I believe agents exist, but I don't believe agents exist independently of the causes and relationships that made them who they are. I make choices precisely because I am the kind of being capable of weighing reasons, forming desires, considering consequences, and acting.

The fact that there are causes behind that process doesn't make the process unreal.

In fact, imagining a completely uncaused decision doesn't seem to rescue agency. If an action occurred for absolutely no reason and arose from nothing about me, it would look more like randomness than freedom.

So I don't see agency and causation as opposites. I am an agent within Wyrd, not an agent standing outside it. And I don't necessarily exempt the Gods from that principle either. Divine agency doesn't have to mean causeless agency. Gods can participate in relationships, history, obligations, consequences, and causation just as other beings do.

Now, that same reasoning influences how I understand the self. I don't think the self exists as some completely isolated thing hidden inside the body.

Who I am exists mostly through relationships.

I am shaped by other people, my culture, my ancestors, my environment, my experiences, my body, my memories, and countless interactions extending backward through time.

That doesn't mean individuality is an illusion.
It means individuality is relational.

A knot in a net is still a distinct knot. But remove every strand connecting it to everything else and there isn't much of a knot left.

This same principle applies more broadly to my polytheism. Things can be deeply interconnected without being identical. Unity does not require sameness.

I am also comfortable with liminality, with things existing at boundaries that aren't always cleanly divided into one category or another. That is why I often resist rigid either/or distinctions.

Natural or divine.

Individual or relational.

Determinism or agency.

God or natural process.

Objective or psychologically experienced.

Sometimes those distinctions are useful. Sometimes reality doesn't cooperate with the boxes we've created for it. Something can be natural and sacred. A person can be an individual and constituted through relationships. A God can be distinct while participating in Wyrd.

An experience can occur through the human mind without that automatically proving that its significance exists only inside the human mind.

And I am comfortable sometimes answering questions with either/or, neither/nor, both/and, or not-this/not-that, depending upon what the categories are actually describing.

My religious practice is consequently much more relational than doctrinal. My relationship with the Gods isn't primarily based upon believing the correct propositions about them. Nor is it based primarily upon obeying an infallible revelation or avoiding divine punishment.

It is based upon experience, reverence, reciprocity, offerings, devotion, relationship, and participation. The Gods can provide wisdom, inspiration, strength, protection, challenge, or simply presence.

Humans respond through offerings, ritual, remembrance, hospitality, devotion, and living in ways that maintain good relationships with the Gods, Spirits, Ancestors, other humans, and the world around us.

That idea of reciprocity is important. Religion isn't simply asking supernatural beings to give me things.

It is relationship.

And my ethics grow out of much the same framework. I don't think morality requires a divine lawgiver handing humanity a list of rules. Instead, morality emerges within relationships between beings capable of affecting one another.

Questions of harm, consent, autonomy, reciprocity, responsibility, empathy, justice, community, flourishing, and consequences matter precisely because our actions affect other beings.

Wyrd makes that almost unavoidable.

What I do doesn't end with me.

Actions produce consequences. Those consequences alter relationships and become causes themselves, spreading outward through the web.

This also explains why determinism doesn't eliminate responsibility.

Holding people accountable is itself part of the causal world. Teaching, praise, criticism, boundaries, restitution, laws, compassion, and consequences all influence future behavior. Responsibility doesn't require someone to have mysteriously stepped outside causation before making a choice.

It requires recognizing them as an agent whose actions matter within a network of other agents.

My use of mythology also doesn't require treating myths as scientific textbooks or literal historical transcripts.

Myths can communicate truths about Gods, relationships, cultures, values, death, transformation, sacrifice, chaos, order, and human experience without every event having to function as modern historical reporting.

Odin sacrificing himself upon Yggdrasil for the runes, drinking from Mímir's Well, or seeking wisdom through sacrifice tells us something about Odin and about the pursuit of knowledge regardless of whether we approach those stories like archaeological field reports.

Likewise, Yggdrasil itself is powerful imagery for how I already understand reality: worlds, beings, Gods, humans, Ancestors, past, present, and future interconnected within something vastly larger than any one participant.

The mythological and philosophical reinforce one another.

I experience and relate to the Gods as agents. But exactly what sort of beings Gods ultimately are, and how divine agency relates to human psychology, consciousness, nature, culture, and whatever reality may exist independently of us, is something I'm still exploring.

I don't think acknowledging psychological mediation automatically explains the Gods away. Every human relationship is psychologically mediated. I don't experience another person without my brain being involved either.

So the interesting question isn't merely whether religious experiences involve psychology. Obviously they do.

The harder question is whether psychology completely explains what is being experienced.

And on that question, I'm comfortable saying:

I don't know yet.

For me, uncertainty isn't the enemy of religion.

Sometimes it is where genuine theology begins. :D


Taken together, I see reality less as a machine made of isolated objects and more as a living web of relationships and becoming.

The Gods are Many.

The Spirits are Many.

The Ancestors are Many.

Human beings are animals produced through billions of years of natural history, yet capable of relationship, reverence, reasoning, creativity, and worship.

Nature is not merely scenery surrounding us. We participate in it.

Creation is not necessarily something that happened once in the distant past. Creation is happening continually.

Evolution creates.

Death creates possibilities for new life.

Relationships create people who did not exist before those relationships shaped them.

Our Ancestors helped create us, and our actions are already helping create the world inherited by those who come after us.

And running through all of this is Wyrd: countless causes, beings, relationships, actions, and consequences woven together into an unfolding reality.

I don't stand outside that web.

Neither, necessarily, do the Gods.

We are participants in it.

Distinct, but interconnected.

Many, without needing to become One.
 
Thanks for a really detailed breakdown.

A lot of what you say resonates with me and my experiences. I'm still noncommittal myself on the existence of the supernatural outside my own imagination, but that doesn't bother me. I engage with a world that feels alive to me so I lean very much into that.

I'm curious though what you (and others) think about gods holding the same role in different branches of the PIE pantheon? Do you see these as separate entities in their own right, or as aspects of the same archetype?

The question might be meaningless... but I'm asking anyway.
 
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Thanks for a really detailed breakdown.

A lot of what you say resonates with me and my experiences. I'm still noncommittal myself on the existence of the supernatural outside my own imagination, but that doesn't bother me. I engage with a world that feels alive to me so I lean very much into that.

I'm curious though what you (and others) think about gods holding the same role in different branches of the PIE pantheon? Do you see these as separate entities in their own right, or as aspects of the same archetype?
I think they're all quite separate.

I think of it this way; all the people on the local police force are doing the same job, approximately. They may even look similar while at work, due to dress standards. But ,they're not all the same person. They've got their quirks, tastes, preferences, ways of doing things.

I also feel that different aspects of one deity can be acknowledged in isolation.
The question might be meaningless... but I'm asking anyway.
Why would it be meaningless?
 
Thanks for a really detailed breakdown.

A lot of what you say resonates with me and my experiences. I'm still noncommittal myself on the existence of the supernatural outside my own imagination, but that doesn't bother me. I engage with a world that feels alive to me so I lean very much into that.

I'm curious though what you (and others) think about gods holding the same role in different branches of the PIE pantheon? Do you see these as separate entities in their own right, or as aspects of the same archetype?
Ya know.... I'm honestly not sure there's a clean answer here

My inclination is to treat the Gods as distinct unless I have some reason not to. So I don't automatically assume that two Gods are actually the same because they occupy similar roles or descend from related PIE traditions. Similarity doesn't equal identity.

But I'm also not opposed to the possibility that some Gods worshipped under different names and in different cultures could actually be the same God, or maybe culturally distinct relationships with the same underlying being or power. Cultures change, stories change, names change, and our understanding of the Gods changes along with them.

What I'm less inclined to do is reduce them to "aspects of the same archetype." I don't really do archetypes. That starts sounding like the Gods are ultimately expressions of something else rather than distinct agents in their own right, and that's not really how I understand polytheism. I don't do the All Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess thing.

So I suppose my answer is annoyingly liminal. Lol :P

Sometimes separate Gods just simply resemble one another. Sometimes historically related Gods may genuinely be related. And perhaps sometimes two names really do point toward the same God, but via a different relationship. @JustGeorge response about the Police kinda illustrates this bit nicely.

I don't think shared function alone gives us enough information to decide which is which.

The question might be meaningless... but I'm asking anyway.
No such thing as a meaningless question. It wouldn't get asked otherwise :)
 
Ya know.... I'm honestly not sure there's a clean answer here

My inclination is to treat the Gods as distinct unless I have some reason not to. So I don't automatically assume that two Gods are actually the same because they occupy similar roles or descend from related PIE traditions. Similarity doesn't equal identity.

But I'm also not opposed to the possibility that some Gods worshipped under different names and in different cultures could actually be the same God, or maybe culturally distinct relationships with the same underlying being or power. Cultures change, stories change, names change, and our understanding of the Gods changes along with them.

What I'm less inclined to do is reduce them to "aspects of the same archetype." I don't really do archetypes. That starts sounding like the Gods are ultimately expressions of something else rather than distinct agents in their own right, and that's not really how I understand polytheism. I don't do the All Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess thing.

So I suppose my answer is annoyingly liminal. Lol :P

Sometimes separate Gods just simply resemble one another. Sometimes historically related Gods may genuinely be related. And perhaps sometimes two names really do point toward the same God, but via a different relationship. @JustGeorge response about the Police kinda illustrates this bit nicely.

I don't think shared function alone gives us enough information to decide which is which.


No such thing as a meaningless question. It wouldn't get asked otherwise :)
Just meandering a bit...

The 'me' that you know is different than the 'me' my son imagines when they think "George". You might think "that's a person I talk theology with" and my son thinks "that's the person that gets my Cheerios."

I wonder if a deity might present differently for different people or in different places.

I don't have a firm answer.
 
I think they're all quite separate.

I think of it this way; all the people on the local police force are doing the same job, approximately. They may even look similar while at work, due to dress standards. But ,they're not all the same person. They've got their quirks, tastes, preferences, ways of doing things.

I also feel that different aspects of one deity can be acknowledged in isolation.

Why would it be meaningless?
Thank you :)

Ah, I think it may be a false dichotomy, and the actual answer may be more layered or subtle.
 
Ya know.... I'm honestly not sure there's a clean answer here

My inclination is to treat the Gods as distinct unless I have some reason not to. So I don't automatically assume that two Gods are actually the same because they occupy similar roles or descend from related PIE traditions. Similarity doesn't equal identity.

But I'm also not opposed to the possibility that some Gods worshipped under different names and in different cultures could actually be the same God, or maybe culturally distinct relationships with the same underlying being or power. Cultures change, stories change, names change, and our understanding of the Gods changes along with them.

What I'm less inclined to do is reduce them to "aspects of the same archetype." I don't really do archetypes. That starts sounding like the Gods are ultimately expressions of something else rather than distinct agents in their own right, and that's not really how I understand polytheism. I don't do the All Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess thing.

So I suppose my answer is annoyingly liminal. Lol :P

Sometimes separate Gods just simply resemble one another. Sometimes historically related Gods may genuinely be related. And perhaps sometimes two names really do point toward the same God, but via a different relationship. @JustGeorge response about the Police kinda illustrates this bit nicely.

I don't think shared function alone gives us enough information to decide which is which.


No such thing as a meaningless question. It wouldn't get asked otherwise :)
Thank you :)

Limnal isn't annoying to me at all. I think certainty is a stain on the lens through which we see the world, in many cases.

Certainty about philosophical and spiritual matters in particular can also have a tendency to crystallise into dogma, of which I am not a fan.
 
Thank you :)

Limnal isn't annoying to me at all. I think certainty is a stain on the lens through which we see the world, in many cases.

Certainty about philosophical and spiritual matters in particular can also have a tendency to crystallise into dogma, of which I am not a fan.
The more I go along, the more I find I enjoy coming to the conclusion of "I 'unno."
 
The 'me' that you know is different than the 'me' my son imagines when they think "George". You might think "that's a person I talk theology with" and my son thinks "that's the person that gets my Cheerios."

I wonder if a deity might present differently for different people or in different places.

I don't have a firm answer.
I think this is a fantastic way to explain it, and not really how I would have approached it. But I can see how it rings true to some degree.
 
Yes! It's so liberating, and it means there's room for all kinds of marvellous possibilities 🤩 give me a blank page over a lookup table any day.
It's why I like my: it's not either/or, neither/nor, this or that mindset :D

It's much easier to deal with things as they come if I'm not already assigning them boxes before they even arrive.
 
It's much easier to deal with things as they come if I'm not already assigning them boxes before they even arrive.
So very true.
As I got further into Druidry, I started to have problems with my Buddhism. In particular, the issue of the soul. I began to feel upset. I liked saying I was a Buddhist, I liked belonging.
As soon as I became aware of my clinging, it ceased to be an issue. I wrestle with the problem now and again and always conclude that "I don't know".
Boxes are not only a hindrance, but can be habit-forming too.
 
I would describe my worldview as polytheistic, creationist, animistic, deterministic, and relational, rooted primarily in Druidry and Celtic-Germanic Heathenry.

These labels need some explanation, though, because I don't necessarily mean by them what people first assume.

At the foundation of my theology is polytheism. I believe the Gods are Many. Odin is not simply another name for Thor, Freya, Brighid, the Morrigan, or Freyr. I understand the Gods as distinct beings or powers with their own identities, relationships, personalities, histories, spheres of influence, and agency.

I also don't assume that something must be omnipotent, omniscient, morally perfect, eternal, or responsible for creating the entire universe before it can meaningfully be called a God. Those assumptions largely come from particular forms of monotheism. They aren't requirements of polytheism.

A God can be immensely powerful without being all-powerful. A God can possess tremendous wisdom without knowing everything. Gods can struggle, change, form relationships, make mistakes, suffer, and perhaps even die.

Norse mythology illustrates this particularly well. Ragnarök includes the deaths of Gods, but it is also part of a larger cycle of destruction, survival, renewal, and rebirth. Divinity does not necessarily mean immunity from becoming.

That matters to me because I don't see perfection as necessary for something to be worthy of reverence. In some ways, the limitations and struggles of the Gods make relationship with them more meaningful.

My worldview is also influenced by the Druid concept of the Three Kindreds: the Gods, the Spirits, and the Ancestors.

The Gods are not the only beings worthy of relationship or reverence. There are also the Spirits, the many beings and powers belonging to the more-than-human world, and the Ancestors, those who came before us and helped create the world into which we were born.

I understand ancestry broadly. It can include familial ancestors, cultural and historical ancestors, and even the enormous evolutionary lineage of beings through which humanity came into existence.

Likewise, when I speak about Spirits, I don't necessarily imagine nature as an otherwise dead collection of objects with invisible ghosts inserted into it. My animistic tendencies run deeper than that. A forest isn't merely lumber waiting to be harvested. A river isn't merely so many gallons of water moving downhill. An animal isn't merely biological machinery.

They are participants in a world of relationships.

And that doesn't mean abandoning biology, ecology, chemistry, or geology. Those disciplines help describe what these beings and systems are and do. Animism concerns how I understand my relationship with them.

I also don't draw a sharp boundary between nature and the divine. This is probably one of the places where my theology differs most strongly from conventional Western monotheism.

I don't imagine nature as one thing and the Gods as supernatural beings standing somewhere outside it, occasionally reaching into the universe to interfere with its machinery. The divine can exist within nature and through natural processes.

Depending on what exactly we mean by "God" or "Spirit," I am even open to understanding things such as Earth, evolution, natural systems, and other vast processes as Divine.

My working conception of divinity is fairly broad representing something greater than humanity and worthy of worship or reverence as potentially divine. But that doesn't mean everything is secretly the same God.

Recognizing connections between things doesn't require collapsing their differences.
The Many can remain genuinely Many while participating in something larger than themselves.

I also describe myself as a creationist, but not in the common young-Earth or anti-evolution sense of that word. I accept evolution, common descent, geology, cosmology, and scientific investigation. I also have no theological problem with abiogenesis if life ultimately arose from nonliving chemistry.

None of that contradicts creation in my worldview. Creation does not require the Gods to periodically violate natural laws.

If natural processes are themselves part of divine activity, then evolution can be a means of creation. Chemistry can be creative. Geological processes can be creative. Stars forming elements are creative. Organisms reproducing, mutating, evolving, dying, and becoming the material from which other life emerges are all parts of an ongoing process of creation.

So when science explains how something happens, I don't see that as automatically eliminating the possibility of Gods.

This is where I distinguish methodological naturalism from metaphysical naturalism.

Science operates through methodological naturalism: it investigates observable natural causes because those are the kinds of explanations science can test.

Metaphysical naturalism goes further and claims that natural reality is all that exists.
The first is a scientific method. The second is a philosophical position. Science can describe evolution without answering whether evolution participates in something sacred or divine.

One of the concepts that ties much of my worldview together is Wyrd. I understand this as the interconnected web of causes, relationships, actions and consequences through which reality continually unfolds.

Wyrd isn't simply "fate" in the sense that everything is following a prewritten cosmic script.I see it more as an ongoing process of becoming. Everything that exists arises within relationships to other things. Every event emerges from conditions that came before it and becomes part of the conditions from which later events emerge.

Nothing exists completely by itself. The past shapes the present. The present reshapes what becomes possible in the future.Our actions become threads in that web. And so do the actions of other people, animals, ecosystems, societies, Ancestors, Spirits, and Gods.


This is where Wyrd connects strongly with my version of determinism. I don't believe choices somehow appear from nowhere. When I make a decision, that decision arises from who I am: my biology, experiences, relationships, memories, beliefs, desires, emotions, circumstances, and reasoning. And all of those have causes.

But I don't think that means I don't make choices. I believe agents exist, but I don't believe agents exist independently of the causes and relationships that made them who they are. I make choices precisely because I am the kind of being capable of weighing reasons, forming desires, considering consequences, and acting.

The fact that there are causes behind that process doesn't make the process unreal.

In fact, imagining a completely uncaused decision doesn't seem to rescue agency. If an action occurred for absolutely no reason and arose from nothing about me, it would look more like randomness than freedom.

So I don't see agency and causation as opposites. I am an agent within Wyrd, not an agent standing outside it. And I don't necessarily exempt the Gods from that principle either. Divine agency doesn't have to mean causeless agency. Gods can participate in relationships, history, obligations, consequences, and causation just as other beings do.

Now, that same reasoning influences how I understand the self. I don't think the self exists as some completely isolated thing hidden inside the body.

Who I am exists mostly through relationships.

I am shaped by other people, my culture, my ancestors, my environment, my experiences, my body, my memories, and countless interactions extending backward through time.

That doesn't mean individuality is an illusion.
It means individuality is relational.

A knot in a net is still a distinct knot. But remove every strand connecting it to everything else and there isn't much of a knot left.

This same principle applies more broadly to my polytheism. Things can be deeply interconnected without being identical. Unity does not require sameness.

I am also comfortable with liminality, with things existing at boundaries that aren't always cleanly divided into one category or another. That is why I often resist rigid either/or distinctions.

Natural or divine.

Individual or relational.

Determinism or agency.

God or natural process.

Objective or psychologically experienced.

Sometimes those distinctions are useful. Sometimes reality doesn't cooperate with the boxes we've created for it. Something can be natural and sacred. A person can be an individual and constituted through relationships. A God can be distinct while participating in Wyrd.

An experience can occur through the human mind without that automatically proving that its significance exists only inside the human mind.

And I am comfortable sometimes answering questions with either/or, neither/nor, both/and, or not-this/not-that, depending upon what the categories are actually describing.

My religious practice is consequently much more relational than doctrinal. My relationship with the Gods isn't primarily based upon believing the correct propositions about them. Nor is it based primarily upon obeying an infallible revelation or avoiding divine punishment.

It is based upon experience, reverence, reciprocity, offerings, devotion, relationship, and participation. The Gods can provide wisdom, inspiration, strength, protection, challenge, or simply presence.

Humans respond through offerings, ritual, remembrance, hospitality, devotion, and living in ways that maintain good relationships with the Gods, Spirits, Ancestors, other humans, and the world around us.

That idea of reciprocity is important. Religion isn't simply asking supernatural beings to give me things.

It is relationship.

And my ethics grow out of much the same framework. I don't think morality requires a divine lawgiver handing humanity a list of rules. Instead, morality emerges within relationships between beings capable of affecting one another.

Questions of harm, consent, autonomy, reciprocity, responsibility, empathy, justice, community, flourishing, and consequences matter precisely because our actions affect other beings.

Wyrd makes that almost unavoidable.

What I do doesn't end with me.

Actions produce consequences. Those consequences alter relationships and become causes themselves, spreading outward through the web.

This also explains why determinism doesn't eliminate responsibility.

Holding people accountable is itself part of the causal world. Teaching, praise, criticism, boundaries, restitution, laws, compassion, and consequences all influence future behavior. Responsibility doesn't require someone to have mysteriously stepped outside causation before making a choice.

It requires recognizing them as an agent whose actions matter within a network of other agents.

My use of mythology also doesn't require treating myths as scientific textbooks or literal historical transcripts.

Myths can communicate truths about Gods, relationships, cultures, values, death, transformation, sacrifice, chaos, order, and human experience without every event having to function as modern historical reporting.

Odin sacrificing himself upon Yggdrasil for the runes, drinking from Mímir's Well, or seeking wisdom through sacrifice tells us something about Odin and about the pursuit of knowledge regardless of whether we approach those stories like archaeological field reports.

Likewise, Yggdrasil itself is powerful imagery for how I already understand reality: worlds, beings, Gods, humans, Ancestors, past, present, and future interconnected within something vastly larger than any one participant.

The mythological and philosophical reinforce one another.

I experience and relate to the Gods as agents. But exactly what sort of beings Gods ultimately are, and how divine agency relates to human psychology, consciousness, nature, culture, and whatever reality may exist independently of us, is something I'm still exploring.

I don't think acknowledging psychological mediation automatically explains the Gods away. Every human relationship is psychologically mediated. I don't experience another person without my brain being involved either.

So the interesting question isn't merely whether religious experiences involve psychology. Obviously they do.

The harder question is whether psychology completely explains what is being experienced.

And on that question, I'm comfortable saying:

I don't know yet.

For me, uncertainty isn't the enemy of religion.

Sometimes it is where genuine theology begins. :D


Taken together, I see reality less as a machine made of isolated objects and more as a living web of relationships and becoming.

The Gods are Many.

The Spirits are Many.

The Ancestors are Many.

Human beings are animals produced through billions of years of natural history, yet capable of relationship, reverence, reasoning, creativity, and worship.

Nature is not merely scenery surrounding us. We participate in it.

Creation is not necessarily something that happened once in the distant past. Creation is happening continually.

Evolution creates.

Death creates possibilities for new life.

Relationships create people who did not exist before those relationships shaped them.

Our Ancestors helped create us, and our actions are already helping create the world inherited by those who come after us.

And running through all of this is Wyrd: countless causes, beings, relationships, actions, and consequences woven together into an unfolding reality.

I don't stand outside that web.

Neither, necessarily, do the Gods.

We are participants in it.

Distinct, but interconnected.

Many, without needing to become One.
Honor and seek relation to gods and deities, as long their aren't of wrong view, is conductive, like to associate with Noble and wise. Honore and sacrifices toward ancestors, where ever they might be, is as well a duty of and upright persons, good householder.

But where does good householder aims to, and how can good householder be ensured to arrive there? What does him making to strive, for this or for that?
 
This has been a pleasurable conversation to follow ... if I may, a couple of comments from the sidelines...

Likewise, when I speak about Spirits ... A forest isn't merely ... A river isn't merely.... An animal isn't merely...
This resonates with me. I'd say 'nature' and 'history' resonates with me. I've mentioned here before the story of the medieval-era Japanese gentleman who was riding along a mountain road at night and heard a fox barking in the forest. The moment so captured him that he erected a Torii, a gate marking the transition from the mundane to the world of the Kami, to commemorate the event.

I also don't draw a sharp boundary between nature and the divine. This is probably one of the places where my theology differs most strongly from conventional Western monotheism.
Nor do I, it's all one. I might be called a 'Christian monist', but I would agree that my Christianity would not be called 'conventional Western monotheism', but then my Gaelic genes were never going to let me settle to that!

I don't imagine nature as one thing and the Gods as supernatural beings standing somewhere outside it, occasionally reaching into the universe to interfere with its machinery. The divine can exist within nature and through natural processes.
Absolutely fundamental to Christianity, and so little understood. "In him we live and move and are... " was old before Paul quoted it to the Athenians.

None of that contradicts creation in my worldview. Creation does not require the Gods to periodically violate natural laws.
Gods, being Gods, can work through things without violating their nature. It's rather, as I see it, in that moment a given nature participates more fully.

One of the concepts that ties much of my worldview together is Wyrd. I understand this as the interconnected web of causes, relationships, actions and consequences through which reality continually unfolds.
Oh, my word! My pagan naturalist father-in-law introduced my to The Way of Wyrd decades ago ... it's on a bookshelf, somewhere, I think ...

I am also comfortable with liminality, with things existing at boundaries that aren't always cleanly divided into one category or another. That is why I often resist rigid either/or distinctions.
There is a patristic tradition that humanity is methorios – natures that live in the liminal boundary between the realms – that human nature touches and connects all aspects and realms of creation. We overlap with both angelic natures and simultaneously the nature of the entire world ...

For me, uncertainty isn't the enemy of religion.
Sometimes it is where genuine theology begins. :D
I would say so ... with the proviso that to be religious does not necessarily require one to be a theologian.

My first sweep at this was to offer comment on almost every statement, but it's your thread ... if anything tickles your fancy, I'll happily discuss further.
 
I would describe my worldview as polytheistic, creationist, animistic, deterministic, and relational, rooted primarily in Druidry and Celtic-Germanic Heathenry.

These labels need some explanation, though, because I don't necessarily mean by them what people first assume.

At the foundation of my theology is polytheism. I believe the Gods are Many. Odin is not simply another name for Thor, Freya, Brighid, the Morrigan, or Freyr. I understand the Gods as distinct beings or powers with their own identities, relationships, personalities, histories, spheres of influence, and agency.

I also don't assume that something must be omnipotent, omniscient, morally perfect, eternal, or responsible for creating the entire universe before it can meaningfully be called a God. Those assumptions largely come from particular forms of monotheism. They aren't requirements of polytheism.

A God can be immensely powerful without being all-powerful. A God can possess tremendous wisdom without knowing everything. Gods can struggle, change, form relationships, make mistakes, suffer, and perhaps even die.

Norse mythology illustrates this particularly well. Ragnarök includes the deaths of Gods, but it is also part of a larger cycle of destruction, survival, renewal, and rebirth. Divinity does not necessarily mean immunity from becoming.

That matters to me because I don't see perfection as necessary for something to be worthy of reverence. In some ways, the limitations and struggles of the Gods make relationship with them more meaningful.

My worldview is also influenced by the Druid concept of the Three Kindreds: the Gods, the Spirits, and the Ancestors.

The Gods are not the only beings worthy of relationship or reverence. There are also the Spirits, the many beings and powers belonging to the more-than-human world, and the Ancestors, those who came before us and helped create the world into which we were born.

I understand ancestry broadly. It can include familial ancestors, cultural and historical ancestors, and even the enormous evolutionary lineage of beings through which humanity came into existence.

Likewise, when I speak about Spirits, I don't necessarily imagine nature as an otherwise dead collection of objects with invisible ghosts inserted into it. My animistic tendencies run deeper than that. A forest isn't merely lumber waiting to be harvested. A river isn't merely so many gallons of water moving downhill. An animal isn't merely biological machinery.

They are participants in a world of relationships.

And that doesn't mean abandoning biology, ecology, chemistry, or geology. Those disciplines help describe what these beings and systems are and do. Animism concerns how I understand my relationship with them.

I also don't draw a sharp boundary between nature and the divine. This is probably one of the places where my theology differs most strongly from conventional Western monotheism.

I don't imagine nature as one thing and the Gods as supernatural beings standing somewhere outside it, occasionally reaching into the universe to interfere with its machinery. The divine can exist within nature and through natural processes.

Depending on what exactly we mean by "God" or "Spirit," I am even open to understanding things such as Earth, evolution, natural systems, and other vast processes as Divine.

My working conception of divinity is fairly broad representing something greater than humanity and worthy of worship or reverence as potentially divine. But that doesn't mean everything is secretly the same God.

Recognizing connections between things doesn't require collapsing their differences.
The Many can remain genuinely Many while participating in something larger than themselves.

I also describe myself as a creationist, but not in the common young-Earth or anti-evolution sense of that word. I accept evolution, common descent, geology, cosmology, and scientific investigation. I also have no theological problem with abiogenesis if life ultimately arose from nonliving chemistry.

None of that contradicts creation in my worldview. Creation does not require the Gods to periodically violate natural laws.

If natural processes are themselves part of divine activity, then evolution can be a means of creation. Chemistry can be creative. Geological processes can be creative. Stars forming elements are creative. Organisms reproducing, mutating, evolving, dying, and becoming the material from which other life emerges are all parts of an ongoing process of creation.

So when science explains how something happens, I don't see that as automatically eliminating the possibility of Gods.

This is where I distinguish methodological naturalism from metaphysical naturalism.

Science operates through methodological naturalism: it investigates observable natural causes because those are the kinds of explanations science can test.

Metaphysical naturalism goes further and claims that natural reality is all that exists.
The first is a scientific method. The second is a philosophical position. Science can describe evolution without answering whether evolution participates in something sacred or divine.

One of the concepts that ties much of my worldview together is Wyrd. I understand this as the interconnected web of causes, relationships, actions and consequences through which reality continually unfolds.

Wyrd isn't simply "fate" in the sense that everything is following a prewritten cosmic script.I see it more as an ongoing process of becoming. Everything that exists arises within relationships to other things. Every event emerges from conditions that came before it and becomes part of the conditions from which later events emerge.

Nothing exists completely by itself. The past shapes the present. The present reshapes what becomes possible in the future.Our actions become threads in that web. And so do the actions of other people, animals, ecosystems, societies, Ancestors, Spirits, and Gods.


This is where Wyrd connects strongly with my version of determinism. I don't believe choices somehow appear from nowhere. When I make a decision, that decision arises from who I am: my biology, experiences, relationships, memories, beliefs, desires, emotions, circumstances, and reasoning. And all of those have causes.

But I don't think that means I don't make choices. I believe agents exist, but I don't believe agents exist independently of the causes and relationships that made them who they are. I make choices precisely because I am the kind of being capable of weighing reasons, forming desires, considering consequences, and acting.

The fact that there are causes behind that process doesn't make the process unreal.

In fact, imagining a completely uncaused decision doesn't seem to rescue agency. If an action occurred for absolutely no reason and arose from nothing about me, it would look more like randomness than freedom.

So I don't see agency and causation as opposites. I am an agent within Wyrd, not an agent standing outside it. And I don't necessarily exempt the Gods from that principle either. Divine agency doesn't have to mean causeless agency. Gods can participate in relationships, history, obligations, consequences, and causation just as other beings do.

Now, that same reasoning influences how I understand the self. I don't think the self exists as some completely isolated thing hidden inside the body.

Who I am exists mostly through relationships.

I am shaped by other people, my culture, my ancestors, my environment, my experiences, my body, my memories, and countless interactions extending backward through time.

That doesn't mean individuality is an illusion.
It means individuality is relational.

A knot in a net is still a distinct knot. But remove every strand connecting it to everything else and there isn't much of a knot left.

This same principle applies more broadly to my polytheism. Things can be deeply interconnected without being identical. Unity does not require sameness.

I am also comfortable with liminality, with things existing at boundaries that aren't always cleanly divided into one category or another. That is why I often resist rigid either/or distinctions.

Natural or divine.

Individual or relational.

Determinism or agency.

God or natural process.

Objective or psychologically experienced.

Sometimes those distinctions are useful. Sometimes reality doesn't cooperate with the boxes we've created for it. Something can be natural and sacred. A person can be an individual and constituted through relationships. A God can be distinct while participating in Wyrd.

An experience can occur through the human mind without that automatically proving that its significance exists only inside the human mind.

And I am comfortable sometimes answering questions with either/or, neither/nor, both/and, or not-this/not-that, depending upon what the categories are actually describing.

My religious practice is consequently much more relational than doctrinal. My relationship with the Gods isn't primarily based upon believing the correct propositions about them. Nor is it based primarily upon obeying an infallible revelation or avoiding divine punishment.

It is based upon experience, reverence, reciprocity, offerings, devotion, relationship, and participation. The Gods can provide wisdom, inspiration, strength, protection, challenge, or simply presence.

Humans respond through offerings, ritual, remembrance, hospitality, devotion, and living in ways that maintain good relationships with the Gods, Spirits, Ancestors, other humans, and the world around us.

That idea of reciprocity is important. Religion isn't simply asking supernatural beings to give me things.

It is relationship.

And my ethics grow out of much the same framework. I don't think morality requires a divine lawgiver handing humanity a list of rules. Instead, morality emerges within relationships between beings capable of affecting one another.

Questions of harm, consent, autonomy, reciprocity, responsibility, empathy, justice, community, flourishing, and consequences matter precisely because our actions affect other beings.

Wyrd makes that almost unavoidable.

What I do doesn't end with me.

Actions produce consequences. Those consequences alter relationships and become causes themselves, spreading outward through the web.

This also explains why determinism doesn't eliminate responsibility.

Holding people accountable is itself part of the causal world. Teaching, praise, criticism, boundaries, restitution, laws, compassion, and consequences all influence future behavior. Responsibility doesn't require someone to have mysteriously stepped outside causation before making a choice.

It requires recognizing them as an agent whose actions matter within a network of other agents.

My use of mythology also doesn't require treating myths as scientific textbooks or literal historical transcripts.

Myths can communicate truths about Gods, relationships, cultures, values, death, transformation, sacrifice, chaos, order, and human experience without every event having to function as modern historical reporting.

Odin sacrificing himself upon Yggdrasil for the runes, drinking from Mímir's Well, or seeking wisdom through sacrifice tells us something about Odin and about the pursuit of knowledge regardless of whether we approach those stories like archaeological field reports.

Likewise, Yggdrasil itself is powerful imagery for how I already understand reality: worlds, beings, Gods, humans, Ancestors, past, present, and future interconnected within something vastly larger than any one participant.

The mythological and philosophical reinforce one another.

I experience and relate to the Gods as agents. But exactly what sort of beings Gods ultimately are, and how divine agency relates to human psychology, consciousness, nature, culture, and whatever reality may exist independently of us, is something I'm still exploring.

I don't think acknowledging psychological mediation automatically explains the Gods away. Every human relationship is psychologically mediated. I don't experience another person without my brain being involved either.

So the interesting question isn't merely whether religious experiences involve psychology. Obviously they do.

The harder question is whether psychology completely explains what is being experienced.

And on that question, I'm comfortable saying:

I don't know yet.

For me, uncertainty isn't the enemy of religion.

Sometimes it is where genuine theology begins. :D


Taken together, I see reality less as a machine made of isolated objects and more as a living web of relationships and becoming.

The Gods are Many.

The Spirits are Many.

The Ancestors are Many.

Human beings are animals produced through billions of years of natural history, yet capable of relationship, reverence, reasoning, creativity, and worship.

Nature is not merely scenery surrounding us. We participate in it.

Creation is not necessarily something that happened once in the distant past. Creation is happening continually.

Evolution creates.

Death creates possibilities for new life.

Relationships create people who did not exist before those relationships shaped them.

Our Ancestors helped create us, and our actions are already helping create the world inherited by those who come after us.

And running through all of this is Wyrd: countless causes, beings, relationships, actions, and consequences woven together into an unfolding reality.

I don't stand outside that web.

Neither, necessarily, do the Gods.

We are participants in it.

Distinct, but interconnected.

Many, without needing to become One.
No wonder why we agree so much. Very nice and very difficult to put into words. What you describe here is all so familiar and I see this as a maturing of understanding of current western polytheistic religion which has returned. It takes so much time to remove the layers of indoctrination of the current western culture both the secular and the Christian dominance for so long. For me it has been a slow process having to rethink what a god is, and our relationship to the land and the rest of nature.

Interestingly the psychology part I was helped by more modern concepts of neuroscience who have finally been questioning the concepts that our minds are separate from the world around and are only inside our brains. This was a problem generated by the rationalist reductionist view of separating everything into discreet "things" and return to a relational view. There are neuroscientists out their that will argue the mind not just in the brain but extends to the fingertips and out into our environment since one cannot actually be truly isolated. Our minds are constantly influenced by all our organs and what is around us so although nerve endings stop, relationship beyond is still present.
 
This has been a pleasurable conversation to follow ... if I may, a couple of comments from the sidelines...


This resonates with me. I'd say 'nature' and 'history' resonates with me. I've mentioned here before the story of the medieval-era Japanese gentleman who was riding along a mountain road at night and heard a fox barking in the forest. The moment so captured him that he erected a Torii, a gate marking the transition from the mundane to the world of the Kami, to commemorate the event.


Nor do I, it's all one. I might be called a 'Christian monist', but I would agree that my Christianity would not be called 'conventional Western monotheism', but then my Gaelic genes were never going to let me settle to that!


Absolutely fundamental to Christianity, and so little understood. "In him we live and move and are... " was old before Paul quoted it to the Athenians.


Gods, being Gods, can work through things without violating their nature. It's rather, as I see it, in that moment a given nature participates more fully.


Oh, my word! My pagan naturalist father-in-law introduced my to The Way of Wyrd decades ago ... it's on a bookshelf, somewhere, I think ...


There is a patristic tradition that humanity is methorios – natures that live in the liminal boundary between the realms – that human nature touches and connects all aspects and realms of creation. We overlap with both angelic natures and simultaneously the nature of the entire world ...


I would say so ... with the proviso that to be religious does not necessarily require one to be a theologian.

My first sweep at this was to offer comment on almost every statement, but it's your thread ... if anything tickles your fancy, I'll happily discuss further.
Please, comment away! I certainly didn't post a giant wall of my theology because I wanted everyone to quietly admire it from a safe distance. :D

So, I actually find several of these parallels really interesting, especially because we're arriving at some remarkably similar places but from rather different theological starting points.

Your description of yourself as a "Christian monist" particularly caught my attention. I think there is probably both considerable overlap and important differences between us there. I don't draw a hard distinction between nature and divinity either, but I am hesitant to take the additional step of saying "it's all one." There can certainly be interconnectedness, perhaps even some underlying unity, without the Many ceasing to genuinely be many. That's one of those wonderfully liminal places where I'm content leaving some fuzziness. :p

And the methorios idea is fascinating. It actually makes me think of the Germanic idea of Midgard, literally the "middle enclosure" or "middle yard." We're living, quite literally, in the middle of things. :D


That resonates strongly with how understand our place in reality. I don't imagine "the other worlds" and "the natural world" as two completely separate territories with a border checkpoint between them. We're situated between the Gods, Spirits, Ancestors, nature and whatever other realms or beings may exist. They overlap and interact, and perhaps aren't entirely separable in the first place. Midgard to me is a rather appropriate name for where we find ourselves. :)

The Wyrd connection made me grin too. My understanding of Wyrd has become increasingly central to how I articulate all this. Gods, humans, Spirits, Ancestors, nature, history, causation, relationships, actions and consequences aren't isolated pieces sitting beside one another. They're participants in an interconnected reality that is continually becoming what it is through what came before. But I do not know of the books you mention. I don't read much fiction anymore.

And yes, absolutely agreed on your last point. One certainly doesn't have to be a theologian to be religious. I suspect I became a theologian (of sorts) largely because I can't leave perfectly good questions unanswered. Lol.

I would be interested in hearing more about what you mean by "Christian monist" though, particularly how you understand the relationship between God, creation, and the distinct beings within it. I suspect that's where some of the similarities and differences between our views could become particularly interesting. To turn the conversation back around. :)

 
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