Forgiveness

Faithfulservant

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I thought it would be good to study Forgiveness..

First off we need to understand that its Gods nature to forgive and my pastor gave a beautiful definition of forgiveness that I would like to share.

To Forgive.. is not allowing a sin to interfere with your desire to love them.

When we think of the Father we know that that He sees what He can do for US; not what we can do for Him. He wants to love us more than he wants anything and how can we be free to love him if we are burdened by our sins. So his answer to this was to send his Son Jesus to make us clean.. He sent his mercy and grace to us in the flesh to die and cover our sins with his blood. He asks in return that we love our brothers and sisters in the same way.. We are to forgive those who trespass against us as God forgives our trespasses against Him..

We can see in Mark 11:25-26 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

and Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you,saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."

Its reasonable to assume that if we do not forgive those who sin against us that it will affect our prayer life.. We cannot take these 2 scriptures lightly.

Misconceptions of Forgiveness

Does NOT mean we forget the sin.. God is ominiscent.. God just doesnt hold it against us.

Does NOT mean we have to ignore it.. he may want us to do something different if we keep committing the same sin.. just like we may have to do something different in order for the person not to sin against us

Does NOT mean we have to pretend it doesnt hurt.

Does NOT mean you have to trust.

Does NOT mean once and for all.

Forgiveness is NOT optional for the believer.

Things we should do:

Understand the offender.. they've just lost a spiritual battle we should feel compassion.

Recognize your own sin.. Creates a humble heart.

Pray for more Faith.

Let God be the judge.

Realize consequences of not forgiving.

Realize the blessing of forgiveness.

Romans 8:33-39 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
very nice Faithful:)

I am seeing at least two types of forgiveness so far and I see power in them both. Frogiveness of sin through the blood of the Lamb, which I see is dfferent and unique that brought us eternal life (but kind of the same idea) from our forgiveness to others.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins."

Then forgiveness toward our brothers.

You cannot change another person or make them stop hurting you. But you can do what God's Word says and live free. This freedom seems to enable us to ask God to have mercy on the person(s) -- remember that we will need mercy one day too!

Matt 18:
14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.


16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
then when Peter and Jesus talked about 7x70. I always liked this one because Peter was kind of a stubborn man thinking seven times a day or seven times is enough. ha ha ha



21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Do you thinbk it is possible for some prayers to not be answered when someone does not forgive another? Like we are stubborn and so God can be stubborn too? Just a thought;)

and if we forgive and they will not recieve...
1 Peter 5:7 says: Casting all your care upon Him; for He careth for you.:)



I think it is also important to realize we dont literally forgive sins but transgressions from others we can forgive in our hearts. Only God can forgive sins.
I am seeing repentance for some reason in some of this too.

I found this in another lesson

Unforgiveness, in a sense, makes you a partner
with the person(s) who has offended you.

The storm cloud he or she is under
causes rain to fall on you unnecessarily
because you are choosing to remain attached
by not forgiving (or releasing) them!

The consequences of unrighteousness
belong to them and not you.

And you may have thought you did forgive them, but in one of those seventy-times-seven times
they offended you -- you didn't forgive!

 
Forgiveness is one of the most God like traits a Christian can asspire to. For in it we must exercise all most every other trait in combination.

Love,Kindness,Mercy,Grace and scores of other good things have to be combined before we can honestly say we forgive someone.
It is also one of the hardest to get right. Much easier to say you are forgiven than it is to really forgive. I have had to and still pray all the time that God help me to forgive certian people it is just so much easier to be angry and hold things against them.

I also find its harder to forgive myself than I would like it to be.

Do you thinbk it is possible for some prayers to not be answered when someone does not forgive another? Like we are stubborn and so God can be stubborn too?
Matt 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24: Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

When we pray are we being faithful enough to Gods word for Him to answer our prayers.
prov 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
prov28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination

I show these only to add to the question not to answer it. We know God wont listen in these situations forgiveness may be like this also. Can I really ask God to forgive me when I refuse to forgive?

I like to think sometimes what would I do as a dad if they where my kids. lol
Many times I have seen fights break out that I asked prematurely for my children to apologize and forgive their siblings. Only when their hearts forgave was peace really established again. I have very obedient children who would say whatever I told them to but until they meant "Sorry" and "your forgiven" I was as a dad powerless to help them. Somethings they just have to do on their own.
 
Nice Basstian.

Forgiving ourselves is interesting. So we make mistakes. But I think it is very different when we recognize them and seek forgiveness, rather than thinking we can do it all on our own. I feel if someone is never feeling any convicition ever, then something is wrong.
When we can forgive ourselves and others, God also forgives us.

1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

[font=Arial,Helvetica]1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[/font]


[font=Arial,Helvetica]1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[/font]



Forgiveness and Repantance (sorrow) work to together.

The first task for the most part, is not to learn to forgive but to be forgiven. "To be forgiven" is, in many ways, the foundational principle of bible believers and those who believe in Jesus. Without it, actions become mere outward religious forms, and our profession of faith becomes nothing and contains no more value before God than the idols Israel made and worshiped while still professing faith in the same God we profess to worship.

How do we learn "to be forgiven"? We learn when we acknowledge our inability to do anything of ourselves to earn or to merit God's grace. We learn when we realize just how bad our moral situation is and why we must fall before God with nothing to plead but our own great need of His mercy. We learn when we experience true sorrow. We learn "to be forgiven" when we, indeed, learn to repent.

Romans:For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Luke: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


2 Cor. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.


So if we cannot forgive and ask for forgiveness something is wrong.
From what I can see,
Godly sorrow and our own sorrow is two distinct types of sorrow.
Gods forgiveness and our own forgiveness to ourself and to others is also two distinct types of forgiveness.
 
what about this kind of sorrow and forgiveness?

"I will say I am sorry only if you say you are sorry first."
"If they dont say sorry, then I am not saying sorry"

How often do we see this?:rolleyes:
 
Bandit said:
what about this kind of sorrow and forgiveness?

"I will say I am sorry only if you say you are sorry first."
"If they dont say sorry, then I am not saying sorry"

How often do we see this?:rolleyes:
Thank you Bandit.
Just today I was on the phone with someone talking about a situation in her life and she was talking about forgiving the person and hoping he could forgive her someday and I did the same thing. I told her he should be alot more worried about if you forgive him then you should be about him forgiving you. Which of course I was wrong about but I admit forgiveness is probably the one thing I have the most trouble with I tend to be a grudge holder but we are working on that.
 
A few (but what seems like yesterday) years ago someone I was close to committed a teribble sin against one of my children. This person was locked up and sent my family on an emotional rollercoaster ride that to this day has not stopped.

I pray to forgive this person although I will never allow them to be apart of my life on this earth.

My problem is this everytime this comes up I again feel the anger and hurt. Not only towards them but also towards myself for in some ways I failed to protect my family.
I was betrayed and my child paid for me being decieved.

This is one of my biggest downfalls and scares me in reality. I say forgiven I pray forgiven but in my heart I am not sure I have forgiven.

My only answer is everytime I feel like I am feeling wrongly towards this person I pray for the ability to forgive them and ask for it.

I dont know if that is enough to fulfil what Jesus said about forgiving or not.

I do know I still feel love for this person and want Gods will to be done in their life. But also I am not real upset at the thought of the millstone Jesus spoke of.
They have never apologized to me or my family and have only continued to try to send messages of a hurtful nature angry because they where turned in and locked up.

I would be grateful to hear your views on this.
 
yah. I think some things are not easy especially when we lose that trust. I mean common sense tells us we dont invite a bank robber or murderer into our homes for dinner.

But that is very hard especially when forgiveness requires that of something that has been horribly decieved and trust is not and may never be gained agin.

I am not sure, but forgiveness can be there, but that does not mean trust will be there, depending on how big the scar is. I am not sure Basstian.
 
Amazing Basstian I heard a sermon last night.. My pastor said that sin does damage.. God wants to and waits to forgive us but sin WILL do damage. The wonderful thing is that God helps us with the damage. How glorious He is.. To love us so much.

Ive had terrible sins committed against me.. and do you know that its affected others more than it has affected me? It has made me wiser to this world.. I have a 13 yo daughter who I was able to guide safely out of harms way for my knowledge of the world. He uses that damage for his will.. :)

You may learn to forgive but you dont have to forget.. and you are allowed to feel pain.. Pray for the sin and the sinner and Glorify God and PRAISE HIM because His way is perfect and right. You may not be able to see the GOOD in the bad yet.. but hun its THERE. Pray for understanding of this.

Have you had horrible things happen to you and years later you see the GOOD that came from it? I have and even though I was angry at the time.. I end up praising God!!

Allow Jesus to comfort you.. Im not meaning to be stereotypical and feel free to correct me.. Its easier for women to ask for comfort because we are softer that way.. But have you asked Jesus to comfort you? When we are at our weakest we are STRONG through Jesus Christ our Lord!! He makes us strong enough to endure through these trials and tribulations.. we have to suffer to mature spiritually allow him to bring you peace of heart and mind.

*hugs*

Your sister in Christ.
 
Amazing OP just what I was looking for... If I hadn't given you reputation for a previous post I would for certain give you it for this (Can't give you double reps til I've repped 15 others... I'll be back lol)

Not only did I wish to thank you for such a post I also wanted to "bump" this thread to see if there are any more new thoughts/ideas/angles out there that anyone wished to share?

One thing I would like to ask you mention pray to god for faith? Can you pray for faith?


This is one of my biggest downfalls and scares me in reality. I say forgiven I pray forgiven but in my heart I am not sure I have forgiven.

My only answer is everytime I feel like I am feeling wrongly towards this person I pray for the ability to forgive them and ask for it.

I dont know if that is enough to fulfil what Jesus said about forgiving or not.

I do know I still feel love for this person and want Gods will to be done in their life. But also I am not real upset at the thought of the millstone Jesus spoke of.
They have never apologized to me or my family and have only continued to try to send messages of a hurtful nature angry because they where turned in and locked up.

I would be grateful to hear your views on this.

I am sorry to hear of this (I am not sure if you are still lurking on the forums but wished to reply anyway...) It is a hard one to think about, you pray for forgiveness for the person, and as Faithful's OP said the scriptures if the man repents you can forgive...

This person hasn't shown repent? Yet you still fiind it in you to forgive? And you pray when you realise there is anger or frustration building in you? For YHWH to calm and ease your mind, heart and soul and to give you the ability to forgive this person? I am not god, nor am I Jesus... But looking towards the scriputres and comparing to your story, it seems that it would almost certainly be enough... :)

Also... Do not blame yourself for anothers actions... They are not your burdens to bare... (easy saying that from this side I know... But seriously... This isn't your fault...)
 
Forgiveness is never easy, particularly if someone has really hurt you or someone you love. But what is tough for us is easy for God. If I have trouble finding forgiveness, I ask God for help to forgive. God always finds a way. :)
 
My 2c on forgiveness.

I don't really agree that we have to wait for a person to repent to forgive. When the prodigal son returned, his father ran out to greet him, welcoming him home before the son was even in earshot. I think the Lord greets us the same way.

And to wait to forgive, until you see repentence, could mean you end up not forgiving. Lots of people don't repent, and may not even see or understand how they've hurt you.

Forgiveness is saying "I'll pay the cost of the hurt." It's given freely, although it's very hard. In my experience we give it over to the Lord, and then we take it back again. We pray and we hand it over once more, only to again take it back. But, over time we leave it longer and longer in God's hands, until we really have forgiven.

Alex, maybe accepting forgiveness can be like that too.

Finally, forgiveness is not the same as trust. If someone hurts you, you can forgive them but that does not mean you should necessarily trust them. I think this is where the repent/change part comes in. If someone has damaged my relationship with them, I should reasonably expect some real change in their behavior before I get near them again. And not just superficial change or apologies, IMO.

Yes, I can forgive the transgression without having to invite you back over for dinner. I can forgive the crime, but still feel that you need to be apart from me (possibly even in jail) for me to be safe.
 
Something I would like to share.... From the story of the lost son which Jesus told...... (I will post the entire sotry for those who are not familiar with it and aqlso for thsoe who would just enjoy reading it and refreshing their memory.)

LUKE 15:12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.

13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living.

14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need.

15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs.

16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!

18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.

19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.'

20So he got up and went to his father. "But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'

22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.

23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate.

24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing.

26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on.

27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'

28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him.

29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends.

30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'

31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.

32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "

--------------------------------------
I love how in 18 and 19 we read and see the son SEE's the errors of his way... And he looks for the best way he can redeem himself... He makes his plan and he prepares.

In 20 however we see a different situation to what the younger son had expected... to me I like how it shows love over comes the errors that others do unto us... They are gone in a heartbeat they do not bare weight and love just swarms it and destroys it..

Then in 21... He is true to his word and he says to his father he has been wrong and wishes for forgiveness and is prepared for punishment! And here is the key bit for me from my translations of the events... His son which was once dead... Is now alive, lost yet he is now found... Understanding you truly are in the wrong and needing of forgiveness and doing all in your power to correct it, is the way in which you shall be forgiven :D
 
I don't really agree that we have to wait for a person to repent to forgive. When the prodigal son returned, his father ran out to greet him, welcoming him home before the son was even in earshot. I think the Lord greets us the same way.


LOL I just posted in refrence to the son! No I don't think we should wait for others to apologise before we forgive, sorry for any misunderstanding what I meant from that post was this person had wronged him, and showed no sign of regret for his actions... And to forgive him still shows true will of god.... Any clearer?
 
This has come up on another board about forgiveness and Hell. I posted "If God cannot forgive why should I?" meaning if God is going to fry sinners in Hellfire eternally God's not forgiving sinners, why should I if I follow Jesus who followed His Father, God. Yet Jesus doesn't tell us to kill sinners. Just the opposite which He learned from His Father, God. I asked Father once about this and received a kind of warning that I shouldn't ask. It's not for us to know. All we have to know is that the Father has taught the Son to teach us to forgive, even our enemies.

When you follow the history of "sinners", say child molesters and murderers, you cannot help but come away with knowledge that these people are rarely born that way. A chain of tragic circumstance, severe neglect, severe abuse, etc. usually can be found in their upbringings that manifest in terrible behavior as teens and adults. God's looking at sin from the Big Picture and who knows what's up ahead in the healing department. I just watched a Stephen King story made into a movie, The Mist, real crapper with alien tentacles and everything but the end of the movie the hero, his child, and 3 other last survivors of the Aliens think they are doomed and decide to shoot themselves with the last four bullets of the only gun. The hero shoots them including his son and can't kill himself, no bullets and screams and then out of the Mist comes a big shadowy image which materializes into the rescuing Army armored carriers and helicopters defeating the Aliens.. so Steve's twisted moral is? Forgiveness of sins might save your own soul when you thought you did everything right.
 
sonoman said:
This has come up on another board about forgiveness and Hell. I posted "If God cannot forgive why should I?" meaning if God is going to fry sinners in Hellfire eternally God's not forgiving sinners, why should I if I follow Jesus who followed His Father, God. Yet Jesus doesn't tell us to kill sinners. Just the opposite which He learned from His Father, God. I asked Father once about this and received a kind of warning that I shouldn't ask. It's not for us to know. All we have to know is that the Father has taught the Son to teach us to forgive, even our enemies.

God forgives those who are repentant. I don't think anyone who has honestly sought God has been turned away from His mercy. While the Prodigal Son is a great story about repentance, and something that I can relate to greatly in my own life, there is also a flip side to it. Observe this parable in Matthew 18:

"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." - Matthew 18:23-35

I shudder to think that I haven't been forgiving enough that when I face God, that I would end up like that unforgiving servant. God has given each of us a conscience to know when we have wronged someone or when we need to forgive those who wronged us, but if we do not take the time to things right, then we are going to have to face God with that on our conscience.

Hell is made for the unrepentant.
 
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