All paths lead to God?

elephant

the elephant analogy

From Louis...
Yes! I have always considered that story to a perfect analogy for "church".
The point is, your conclusions are only as valid as your original premise -
if you make a mistake right away, as the blind men did ( it wasn't God - just an elephant ) then everything after that was equaly invalid.
If the Biblical prophets were wrong about being "divinely inspired",
( just interpreting their own subconscious insights ) then their words
have no more or less value than any other human concepts.
 
paths

The "popular" saying "All paths lead to God" is one of my personal principles.

From Louis .....
I'm inclined to agree.
I assume there's a God because I think the idea of a "living intelligence"
is the only explanation that GOES FAR ENOUGH - because my finite brain
interprets reality as having a "beginning", which requires a CAUSE.
Of course, I could be wrong - maybe reality is INFINITE, having no
beginning and no need for a cause ( or a God ).
BUT.... in a infinite reality, ALL possibilities would exist - which must
include the possibility that God DOES exist.
And if there's ANY chance God might exist, he probably WOULD !
 
genesis

I said:
Of course, for those who live in a desert, why should they even believe in the sea?
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Hi Louis,

Thank you for resurrecting this interesting thread.

"Forever caught in desert lands one has to learn to disbelieve the sea."--Genesis (no, not the bible, the one with Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins!)

Great parable, Brian. Enjoyed yours too, NOGO.
 
Nogodnomasters said:
Brian, your parable is based on an unproven a priori that god exists and people who make the claim as having found him/her have really done so. While the sea can be proven to exist by simply leading one to the shore, with god it is not that easy.
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You may still deny that the sea actually exists even when standing on its shores. In fact your own awareness that you have an I-feeling is the bit of sea you can see from where you're standing right now. Yet you insist there is no ocean beyond it.

Andrew
 
bananabrain said:
i don't think you are aware of the full range of jewish thought - merely reading an english translation of the so-called "old testament" will not give you the context that a knowledge of the oral tradition that accompanies the written law does. . .

. . . but you won't find these arguments in your king james, of course, which is why fundamentalist literalists appear so ridiculous to jewish eyes.
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I know you weren't talking to me, but I wanted to mention how much I appreciate what you refer to here. It really does clear up a lot of the agnst I've had with Christian interpretation of the Old Testament.

Fundamentalists appear ridiculous to me, too. :)

I don't want to degrade their belief in any way, really, but sometimes the way it is practiced can be very . . . um . . . socially counterproductive? I'm not sure exactly how to put it.
 
In response to Brian's original post:

I believe that many (although not all) paths lead to the Divine. I agree with many of the replies given here. Why is my belief any better than someone else's? It's just mine, that's all. I experience God through my senses and conceive of him in my mind, and that's bound to be different in some way from what others believe. I'm equally as prone, in some cases more so, to missing the point as anyone else.

I can't believe that there's only one path. Of course I will choose the one that better suits me, but only one? If there were only one true path I still have no idea of knowing which one it is! There are just too many to choose from and many of them claim to be the only way (not all, I know).

This confusion doesn't stop me from believing. I just choose what makes the most sense for me.
 
brian said:
Just as there is one world, one sky, one sun - each with many names and expressions - so I see that there is only one Divinity, with a myriad of expressions and names.

I'm curious as to how many people here see the world's religions as existing to explain one Divinity, but through different means that make most sense to different people.

Or is there only one True Path to God, that a single Religion - perhaps even denomination - has sole privileged rights to?
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Just like there is only one universe and one set of physical laws, just so is there only one path to God and that is the path that goes through the I-feeling or individual consciousness.

There may be many types of organizations that may or may not claim that their system or method is best, but all have to follow a practical tested system. Those organizations that fall short of this are just fooling their members.

Any spiritual or religious organization which claims that only they have the true way and that you cannot reach the goal in other systems should be distrusted. Such organizations use fear, dogma and superstition to keep people from using their rational faculty.
 
Andreas said:
. . . there [is] only one path to God and that is the path that goes through the I-feeling or individual consciousness.
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Interesting point, Andreas. Would this mean that we are all really using the same path, even if we perceive it differently (that is, assuming we're actually following that path)?
 
StrangeQuark said:
Interesting point, Andreas. Would this mean that we are all really using the same path, even if we perceive it differently (that is, assuming we're actually following that path)?
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That's how I see it. All of creation is moving in the same direction towards liberation of consciousness away from bondage within matter and mind. Spiritual practices are nothing but ways to speed up this process of liberation. So all are moving on the same path but not all people are moving in the same gear (humans can even choose to move backwards for some time).
 
Andreas said:
Just like there is only one universe and one set of physical laws, just so is there only one path to God and that is the path that goes through the I-feeling or individual consciousness.
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It's an interesting statement. :)
 
Originally Posted by Andreas
Just like there is only one universe and one set of physical laws, just so is there only one path to God and that is the path that goes through the I-feeling or individual consciousness.



I said:
It's an interesting statement. :)
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It's a very general statement. :D It's pretty abstract.
What, exactly, does it mean, that "the path to God is the path that goes through... individual consciousness?"
I am hoping to hear responses from anyone who felt a resonance with Andreas's statement.
 
It's a very general statement. :D It's pretty abstract.
What, exactly, does it mean, that "the path to God is the path that goes through the I-feeling or individual consciousness?"
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I suppose Buddhists would not underwrite such a description because they don't recognize such a thing as an 'I' or 'individual consciousness' nor a God for that matter.
It means that God is a state of mind which is an expansion of your own small self (I am 'That'). So you cannot find God by searching outside but only by going within your own mind. This can also be found in the original (reconstructed) teachings of Jesus.

Andrew
 
Andrew:

I'm just full of questions (there's so much I need to learn), I know! :)

By "reconstructed," do you mean the Bible in its present form, or something else? I ask because the term reminds me of "reconstructionist" movements, which I am only a little familiar with because I have had acquaintances and friends who participate in reconstructionism.
 
StrangeQuark said:
Andrew:
By "reconstructed," do you mean the Bible in its present form, or something else?
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No, not the Bible, but the actual teachings of Jesus as they appeared (in corrupted form) in the lost gospel 'Q' which was copied and edited by the authors of Matthew and Luke.

Because the authors of the Q-gospel had also done some editing of their own, reconstructing the original sayings is in places hard. Nevertheless, the original sayings of Jesus are much more powerful and spiritually significant than any of the edited stuff.

I've made my own reconstruction of the sayings on the basis of the already reconstructed Q-gospel (with its extra sayings added by the editors).

Andrew
 
This is very interesting. I was given to understand that at least Matthew did not actually write the gospel attributed to his name, but rather took notes throughout his life that were later compiled by Christian scholars. This "Q-gospel" is new to me however. Do you know where I might learn more about it?

And, just out of curiosity, how can we be sure that anything reveals the original words of Christ?
 
StrangeQuark said:
And, just out of curiosity, how can we be sure that anything reveals the original words of Christ?
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We can't be sure but there are techniques to seperate the editorial layers. The rest is intuition and best guessing.

I will look for some links to Q later (the Vatican has already acknowledged that Mark and Q were used by the authors of Matthew and Luke).

Andrew
 
Andreas said:
We can't be sure but there are techniques to seperate the editorial layers. The rest is intuition and best guessing.

I will look for some links to Q later (the Vatican has already acknowledged that Mark and Q were used by the authors of Matthew and Luke).

Andrew
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Thank you, Andrew. I deeply appreciate the information. :)
 
Re: All paths lead to God?/"Q-gospel"

StrangeQuark said:
This "Q-gospel" is new to me however. Do you know where I might learn more about it?
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Namaskar,

Here's a page I found some time ago by a dutchman called Wim van den Dungen. He has also made his own interpretation of the teachings of Jesus as found in (part of) 'Q'. When I contacted him, I found out he is doing the same type of meditation as I'm doing (small world!).

http://www.sofiatopia.org/equiaeon/jesus4.htm
 
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